Australian Airline Pilot: Respected Profession or 'Noose around your Neck'
So one guy thinks because its his son's birthday he is entitled to a day off. Another says he is entitled to christmas day off? in a 24/7 industry??? Really.. What about doctor's nurses, train drivers, and everyone working those days.....what makes you so special.
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The reality IMO is we have gone to far from one direction (union power) to to far the other direction (company power). The share of profits for shareholders and especially the top management of most companies is obscene (think Alan Joyce and his $180 million for 14 years) then top it off with lack of social conscious regarding gouging due to market share and it’s out of control. To constantly provide productivity to get a pay rise to keep pace with inflation is ridiculous as you end up with no conditions ( sound familiar?).
8 AOC's, 8 divided pilot groups, one red tail.
When the largest and most desirable employer doesn't have to pay what's fairly owed, what hope is there for the rest of Australian aviation.
When the largest and most desirable employer doesn't have to pay what's fairly owed, what hope is there for the rest of Australian aviation.
Last edited by Icemansteeve; 10th Jul 2023 at 15:27.
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You might want to review this somewhat incautious comment; take look at megan's contribution here (and elsewhere)...
... and while reasonable payment for your expertise is important I also appreciate those who simply do their work well out of pride, honour, and sense of duty, not just for maximum $$. I suspect that, apart from the sheer enjoyment of it, this is something megan, beamer and tailwheel may have in common.
It probably takes a few years to understand, and some may never get it, but rewards are not always monetary.
FP.
... and while reasonable payment for your expertise is important I also appreciate those who simply do their work well out of pride, honour, and sense of duty, not just for maximum $$. I suspect that, apart from the sheer enjoyment of it, this is something megan, beamer and tailwheel may have in common.
It probably takes a few years to understand, and some may never get it, but rewards are not always monetary.
FP.
I’m pretty sure the pay and conditions in Australia are so far behind the going rate look at the figures posted at the start of this thread.
The biggest thing the pilot body needs to learn is this, COMPANIES are competing against each other, the employees should NOT. COMPANIES should be competing for employees, NOT the other way around. COMPANIES are paying the employee to work for them to assist in generating revenue, the employee is working to generate livable income.
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So one guy thinks because its his son's birthday he is entitled to a day off. Another says he is entitled to christmas day off? in a 24/7 industry??? Really.. What about doctor's nurses, train drivers, and everyone working those days.....what makes you so special.
And anyway, why shouldn't a father/mother be able to take a day off for their son's birthday?? How cruel are you exactly? Does the airline CEO - or any of the management - come into work at 0500 on Christmas Day, or on their birthday, or on their family member's birthday? No.......thought not.
As it is, we already fly weekends, bank holidays, birthdays, anniversaries etc, throughout the year for no extra benefit. Why should we also have to do that on that one special day as well, and deprive our young families of a normal family Christmas? Airlines own enough of our lives as it is.
Why are passenger holiday operations considered to be a "24/7 industry"?. Why does any holiday passenger actually need to fly on Christmas Day, (or Christmas Eve, or Boxing Day)? If the flights were not there, they would simply arrange to fly a few days before or after. I cannot remember the last time I had Christmas Day off.
As for being "special"? Nope, but neither are we a registered charity. We supply a service in return for money. Our terms and conditions of the job are a part of that, and workers have the legal right to maintain or improve their terms and conditions - because no-one else will.
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As it is, we already fly weekends, bank holidays, birthdays, anniversaries etc, throughout the year for no extra benefit.
Wages are not going ballistic in the US because pilots are crying poor, they just wont work for you if you offer any less...
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43, they pulled that trick during the Jetstar PIA. You had Gareth Evans at each press conference making sure he mentioned the $330,000 per year widebody training captains made. Skimming socials after, the public then turned against the pilot body as expected, Gareth achieved the damage he wanted to cause, positioning these pilots as thieving pests. Meanwhile he departed off with his tens of millions.
43, they pulled that trick during the Jetstar PIA. You had Gareth Evans at each press conference making sure he mentioned the $330,000 per year widebody training captains made. Skimming socials after, the public then turned against the pilot body as expected, Gareth achieved the damage he wanted to cause, positioning these pilots as thieving pests. Meanwhile he departed off with his tens of millions.
What a company can't get away with is blaming pilots for leaving, and going to better jobs or staying away from certain operators because they offer ****e. Thats when the public will just say "PAY MORE YOU IDIOTS" and just fly with the operators that have reliable services due to having pilots, even if they are more expensive. After all they want to be assured they will get to where they are going regardless of the excuse.
The other change needed is the consumer law changed, so that when airlines cancel and disrupt the average persons life in Australia they need to be appropriately compensated. Then companies will pay more to ensure reliable services. Right now most EBAs allow an airline to just keep pilots working on delays, and passengers get nothing for their trouble. The airline wins both ways. Try that in Europe or the USA and the company is in for big costs to accommodate passengers and such.
Pilots could earn big brownie points by backing consumer law changes, so its clear we are on the passengers side, again something a large industry union could push for.
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Don’t try to rewrite history. Show me another airline PIA that stuck to their guns as long as mainline QF in the last 20 years?
So which airlines should we be encouraging people to avoid?
It seems that REX pilots are being paid the same as QLink pilots to fly an aircraft half the size so is QLink on the top of the Turbo-Prop “do not apply list.”
Obviously Qantas is at the top of the “do not apply list” internationally so who’s the top of the list domestically? Looks like the A220 pilots will be up there along with Jetstar and Network.
It seems that REX pilots are being paid the same as QLink pilots to fly an aircraft half the size so is QLink on the top of the Turbo-Prop “do not apply list.”
Obviously Qantas is at the top of the “do not apply list” internationally so who’s the top of the list domestically? Looks like the A220 pilots will be up there along with Jetstar and Network.
Last edited by aussieflyboy; 3rd Jul 2023 at 23:20.
But since the middle of last year some unions have negotiated good deals for employee groups, JQ, EFA amongst others seem to have voted up their EAs without resorting to PIA. The always militant ALAEA agreed to a good deal without resorting to any serious industrial action. The feeling from other employee groups with EAs about to expire is that the IR landscape is in their favour for once and some big concessions can be achieved.
Now have a think why that is……
Folk are talking about getting a day of importance off (birthday etc), reading the QF EBA I see you folk have three possible flex periods available per year, can you not use those, or is it too difficult to organise? One of the big impediments I see is how you folk are locked into the seniority system, the company knows they have you by the proverbial right there, in our industry upgrades eg to a trainer slot, were by volunteer and merit We ran a bidding book where folk could request particular days off and the roster was built around those requests, didn't always work out but that was extremely rare. It didn't mean you could write your own roster, just that important day you needed, school sports day, dentist, birthday etc You needed to work your share of Xmas's and that was not negotiable.
Folk are talking about getting a day of importance off (birthday etc), reading the QF EBA I see you folk have three possible flex periods available per year, can you not use those, or is it too difficult to organise? One of the big impediments I see is how you folk are locked into the seniority system, the company knows they have you by the proverbial right there, in our industry upgrades eg to a trainer slot, were by volunteer and merit We ran a bidding book where folk could request particular days off and the roster was built around those requests, didn't always work out but that was extremely rare. It didn't mean you could write your own roster, just that important day you needed, school sports day, dentist, birthday etc You needed to work your share of Xmas's and that was not negotiable.
Do you guys know that the provisions of the National Employment Standards contained in the Fair Work Act regarding Public Holidays override whatever is written in Enterprise Agreements. It might be worth reading up on it. I believe these provisions have been recently tested in court too.
The company's bewilderment is just a facade ... they know. The doublespeak from our low-rent management just adds insult to the conditions we're working under.
Last edited by ArthurSlugworth; 4th Jul 2023 at 08:11.
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As far as I know not one Qantas group pilots have secured any more than a two year wage freeze plus 3 years at 3% over a 5 year EA which equates to 1.8% per year. For the 12 months up to March inflation was 7%. On my maths that means you are going backwards once again. The engineers did far better using back door methods to get close to 30% for 5 years.
So one guy thinks because its his son's birthday he is entitled to a day off. Another says he is entitled to christmas day off? in a 24/7 industry??? Really.. What about doctor's nurses, train drivers, and everyone working those days.....what makes you so special.