Airlines in Aus feeling the pinch
Originally Posted by 43Inches
Are they serious to be offering up to $160k for a jet TRI, when local (US) companies are offering that for line crew. A SAAB trainer in Rex can earn more, and yes allowing for USD conversion. Not sure who in their right mind would accept that. Unless they like working for companies that profit billions and pay you a pittance. No wonder they class them only 3.8 stars, hope that's out of ten though.
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
Can you read?
Aircraft Training Captains. Not TRIs. Not Check captains.
So USD$140-160,000 would be AUD$198 - 226,0000. A little below expectations perhaps.
Aircraft Training Captains. Not TRIs. Not Check captains.
So USD$140-160,000 would be AUD$198 - 226,0000. A little below expectations perhaps.
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Originally Posted by kcboy
QF mainline ... anger from internals being held back from a start date and zero communication starts to pent up…
The solution is so simple: tag and release. Give internals a start date, do 1 day of induction then onto LWOP back to the internal company for X amount of years so they can catch up on recruitment. Nobody would care provided they weren't made to remain at the internal for 5+ years. Makes far more sense than losing a known quantity to the USA or the Middle East.
When I started in the 70s, the right hand seat was the dream job and the airline took care of everything.
My considerable experience since has been that, when the market is flourishing and there are plenty of spare pilots around who aspire to the dizzy heights of an airline job, airlines move the goalposts to increase their demands. Their attitude has always appeared to be that, because they are paying bigger salaries than the average, they are entitled to increase roster periods, max duty hours, forget holiday entitlements and rest time and hammer sh*t out of anybody daft enough to put up with it.
They no longer take responsibility for licence training, newly required type ratings or the necessity for a sensible family existence. THEY MILK IT.
Now the boot is on the other foot and young aspirants are realising that Airline Flying, per se, isn't all it is promoted to be. There are better jobs in the GA market for example, with better-equipped aeroplanes and less-demanding work profiles. The importance too of an apparently attractive airline salary is now less important than some semblance of a home life and a bit of leisure time. I remember being so shagged out at the end of a duty week that I needed just to sleep for virtually the whole rest period just to be fit to start, you've guessed it, on EARLIES again !
There was an occasion in the past that a "single" pilot had been rostered on virtually continuous earlies for SIX months and was then rostered for a very late finish immediately before an annual leave which, by the way, never included weekend days ! They had to be specially requested for a mid fortnight break and sometimes they were never available.
Oh, and just remember this all tends to be cyclical. And while there are shareholders, it will happen again !
BTW, my best pal became an aviation specialist barrister.
Did he envy me ? No. He bought himself a new Baron and flew into the sunset.............
My considerable experience since has been that, when the market is flourishing and there are plenty of spare pilots around who aspire to the dizzy heights of an airline job, airlines move the goalposts to increase their demands. Their attitude has always appeared to be that, because they are paying bigger salaries than the average, they are entitled to increase roster periods, max duty hours, forget holiday entitlements and rest time and hammer sh*t out of anybody daft enough to put up with it.
They no longer take responsibility for licence training, newly required type ratings or the necessity for a sensible family existence. THEY MILK IT.
Now the boot is on the other foot and young aspirants are realising that Airline Flying, per se, isn't all it is promoted to be. There are better jobs in the GA market for example, with better-equipped aeroplanes and less-demanding work profiles. The importance too of an apparently attractive airline salary is now less important than some semblance of a home life and a bit of leisure time. I remember being so shagged out at the end of a duty week that I needed just to sleep for virtually the whole rest period just to be fit to start, you've guessed it, on EARLIES again !
There was an occasion in the past that a "single" pilot had been rostered on virtually continuous earlies for SIX months and was then rostered for a very late finish immediately before an annual leave which, by the way, never included weekend days ! They had to be specially requested for a mid fortnight break and sometimes they were never available.
Oh, and just remember this all tends to be cyclical. And while there are shareholders, it will happen again !
BTW, my best pal became an aviation specialist barrister.
Did he envy me ? No. He bought himself a new Baron and flew into the sunset.............
Last edited by Sleeve Wing; 2nd Feb 2023 at 10:32.
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Originally Posted by ZebraFlyer
Can attest to this. If you are at a group airline and have been placed on the hold file, each month that goes by is another 15 or so (I think?) seniority numbers you will be junior to, with no precise end in sight. Rumour that JQ is only releasing 2 per month so some unable to take other positions within. Another rumour that hiring only from certain over subscribed bases of other internal companies. You are at their whim, QF purgatory.
The solution is so simple: tag and release. Give internals a start date, do 1 day of induction then onto LWOP back to the internal company for X amount of years so they can catch up on recruitment. Nobody would care provided they weren't made to remain at the internal for 5+ years. Makes far more sense than losing a known quantity to the USA or the Middle East.
The solution is so simple: tag and release. Give internals a start date, do 1 day of induction then onto LWOP back to the internal company for X amount of years so they can catch up on recruitment. Nobody would care provided they weren't made to remain at the internal for 5+ years. Makes far more sense than losing a known quantity to the USA or the Middle East.
Originally Posted by Beer Baron
What utter drivel. AIPA preside over the highest paid wide body and narrow body pilot EA’s in the country. If you want to point fingers about who’s responsible for lowering conditions in the country then you need to look at a different operator, different union and different pilots.
So it’s utter drivel that what I said was not in EA9 but in EA 10 and they are not a lowering of your conditions? Loss of night credits for 4 man crews, really.
Originally Posted by 43Inches
Are they serious to be offering up to $160k for a jet TRI, when local (US) companies are offering that for line crew. A SAAB trainer in Rex can earn more, and yes allowing for USD conversion. Not sure who in their right mind would accept that. Unless they like working for companies that profit billions and pay you a pittance. No wonder they class them only 3.8 stars, hope that's out of ten though.
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The rot set in years ago with the slow and steady erosion of the profession . Airline managers have regarded pilots as an expendable commodity... they have the delusional idea everyone wants to work for them.
Pilots are not low hanging fruit and it's blatantly obvious the shortage is going to get a lot worse as the competition intensifies and the talent pool dries up.
Covid was the long awaited excuse airline managers had been waiting for to get rid of the top earners under early retirements, or one off redundancy pay-outs. Now fast forward to 2023 airfares are sky high with load factors to match, but airlines are struggling to attract the talent.
The root cause of the issue is the common systemic management agenda to undermine and undervalue the profession whenever and wherever possible.
IMHO airlines don't need more analysts or HR managers they need people who understand the problem and are prepared to stand up and be unpopular with the CEO , CFO and the shareholders - the profession is worth more and it's about time it was recognised .
Pilots are not low hanging fruit and it's blatantly obvious the shortage is going to get a lot worse as the competition intensifies and the talent pool dries up.
Covid was the long awaited excuse airline managers had been waiting for to get rid of the top earners under early retirements, or one off redundancy pay-outs. Now fast forward to 2023 airfares are sky high with load factors to match, but airlines are struggling to attract the talent.
The root cause of the issue is the common systemic management agenda to undermine and undervalue the profession whenever and wherever possible.
IMHO airlines don't need more analysts or HR managers they need people who understand the problem and are prepared to stand up and be unpopular with the CEO , CFO and the shareholders - the profession is worth more and it's about time it was recognised .
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Originally Posted by propaganda
The rot set in years ago with the slow and steady erosion of the profession . Airline managers have regarded pilots as an expendable commodity... they have the delusional idea everyone wants to work for them.
Pilots are not low hanging fruit and it's blatantly obvious the shortage is going to get a lot worse as the competition intensifies and the talent pool dries up.
Covid was the long awaited excuse airline managers had been waiting for to get rid of the top earners under early retirements, or one off redundancy pay-outs. Now fast forward to 2023 airfares are sky high with load factors to match, but airlines are struggling to attract the talent.
The root cause of the issue is the common systemic management agenda to undermine and undervalue the profession whenever and wherever possible.
IMHO airlines don't need more analysts or HR managers they need people who understand the problem and are prepared to stand up and be unpopular with the CEO , CFO and the shareholders - the profession is worth more and it's about time it was recognised .
Pilots are not low hanging fruit and it's blatantly obvious the shortage is going to get a lot worse as the competition intensifies and the talent pool dries up.
Covid was the long awaited excuse airline managers had been waiting for to get rid of the top earners under early retirements, or one off redundancy pay-outs. Now fast forward to 2023 airfares are sky high with load factors to match, but airlines are struggling to attract the talent.
The root cause of the issue is the common systemic management agenda to undermine and undervalue the profession whenever and wherever possible.
IMHO airlines don't need more analysts or HR managers they need people who understand the problem and are prepared to stand up and be unpopular with the CEO , CFO and the shareholders - the profession is worth more and it's about time it was recognised .
Originally Posted by dragon man
“There is one person responsible for the previous 10 years of downwards pay and conditions, and he sits at the head of Coward St. Unfortunately upper level management are to ignorant to see.”
The Irishman sowed the seeds , AIPA watered them then the pilots harvested them by voting them up.Who can believe a union would go to court to fight a C scale that they told the pilots to vote for. Voting for 23.5 hour TOD for 4 pilots and removing night credits so you can work 30% more hours per bid period. All self inflicted.
The Irishman sowed the seeds , AIPA watered them then the pilots harvested them by voting them up.Who can believe a union would go to court to fight a C scale that they told the pilots to vote for. Voting for 23.5 hour TOD for 4 pilots and removing night credits so you can work 30% more hours per bid period. All self inflicted.
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Night credits at QF were never about flying at night. They were introduced as a work around pay rise during the wages accord between the Hawke goverment and the ACTU in the 80s. But you knew that Dragon didn’t you.
You are not correct they were introduced in the 1960s when Qantas pilots took strike action for a Nth American award. They were actually higher but were reduced when the 747 came into service. To get around the wages accord and the domestic pilots dispute the 400 was given its pay rise by using overtime.
Originally Posted by sid-star
Parking jets because there’s no drivers is coming to a town near you.
If you have any better options, why would you come here.
Looks like FO monthly hours will be going up. I'm going to have to call in sick even more.
