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Bonza has its AOC

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Old 5th Apr 2024, 04:30
  #841 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Deano969
IIR VA was doing Mildura to Melbourne close to daily with a 738 pre covid
ABs 50,000+ may skew more towards Melbourne that QLD but who really knows....
Well known loss making for VA except for those peak times mentioned before, the rest of the week was sparse pickings.
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Old 5th Apr 2024, 04:33
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Bain axed Mildura in August 2020. Not even a -700 would save that route.

Run some numbers for Melbourne to Mildura, fuel, leasing, the whole lot on a shiny expensive MAX. One heck of a cash burner.

You need to run some numbers before throwing darts at a map.
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Old 5th Apr 2024, 07:01
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Originally Posted by nomess
They are probably cannibalising their own markets. Operating Mildura to a one SEQ destination is one thing, but then to introduce a second SEQ destination, operating on the same days, is a tough ask.

They keep connecting the dots to some of these regional areas from other locations, but it’s likely just all too much for some of these regions.

Winter is coming, what do people want? They want Sydney and Melbourne to anything sun. Wouldn’t you go fishing where the fish are?
So you are suggesting that Bonza go head to head with QF/JQ and VA ?
We know how that ends....
What competition have the above thrown at Bonza to date ?
About all thats been done is a few point to point routes started ahead of Bonza by Qantas
Bonza have not copped what REX is copping now or the many that tried in the past

If they are thinking long term, Bonza is on the right path
Get established
Grow a fleet and team to support it
Lose as little as possible whilst doing so
Then when the time is right ie 30 or so frames, jump onto the routes that matter by redirecting resources
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Old 5th Apr 2024, 10:23
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Originally Posted by Deano969
IIR VA was doing Mildura to Melbourne close to daily with a 738 pre covid
ABs 50,000+ may skew more towards Melbourne that QLD but who really knows....
And they had a load factor of 66% for all airlines on the route, data is easy enough to lookup https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/defau..._dec_2019.xlsx
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Old 5th Apr 2024, 22:13
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VA started Mildura at a time that BG and LKH were at war, and BG wanted to use the EJets to ruin Rex in the country, which as most of us knew then was going to just bleed money for VA. When the EJets were phased out Mildura was retained as a Boeing route with the idea that the ATR would eventually service it, but Melbourne airport/Airservices stymied VA attempts to put more ATRs out of Melbourne, due to how slow they were and problems fitting in with Melbourne traffic, this was while QLink was operating Q400s in Melbourne so no slow early Dash 8s. Unfortunately it was an attachment most days to the end of a crew/aircraft roster so it often ran late, on top of that the yield was very poor to keep numbers up. Fridays/Sunday afternoons relatively good loads, the rest of the week struggled for 50%.
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Old 6th Apr 2024, 00:27
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From the letters to the editor page of Sunshine Coast News 6/4/24........


"If you are the type of individual who doesn’t like to plan or schedule anything, loves last minute surprises and definitely doesn’t care about being stranded at crowded airports then Bonzo is for you.

I must admit that their Russian roulette destination booking service lives up to and indeed exceeds all expectations. Okay, you book where you would like to go and then those cheeky Bonzo team members throw a dice to advise you where you will go but then wait, there’s more. At the last minute, just for a laugh they pull out the Joker, cancel the flight for ‘maintenance reasons’ but really it’s for lack of passengers.

Absolutely hilarious, couldn’t stop laughing and full credit to the Bonzo CEO management trainee. And here’s the really good part, when you’re at the airport and they cancel, they tell you ‘sorry, but we can’t help you, but we’ll be flying again in a few days if you want to book again’. Absolutely rebooking is a must because they want you to experience the same thing over and over and over again. Good on ya Bonzo, you legends and to anyone reading this: hurry, book now because it won’t be long till good old Bonzo is no more."
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Old 6th Apr 2024, 02:24
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Originally Posted by 10JQKA
From the letters to the editor page of Sunshine Coast News 6/4/24........


"If you are the type of individual who doesn’t like to plan or schedule anything, loves last minute surprises and definitely doesn’t care about being stranded at crowded airports then Bonzo is for you.

I must admit that their Russian roulette destination booking service lives up to and indeed exceeds all expectations. Okay, you book where you would like to go and then those cheeky Bonzo team members throw a dice to advise you where you will go but then wait, there’s more. At the last minute, just for a laugh they pull out the Joker, cancel the flight for ‘maintenance reasons’ but really it’s for lack of passengers.

Absolutely hilarious, couldn’t stop laughing and full credit to the Bonzo CEO management trainee. And here’s the really good part, when you’re at the airport and they cancel, they tell you ‘sorry, but we can’t help you, but we’ll be flying again in a few days if you want to book again’. Absolutely rebooking is a must because they want you to experience the same thing over and over and over again. Good on ya Bonzo, you legends and to anyone reading this: hurry, book now because it won’t be long till good old Bonzo is no more."
So correct. Also if you go to the smallish towns and survey the residents of course everyone wants to somewhere! Now the real challenge is how many will actually travel and on a regular basis. Holiday times are one one missions. Taking folks on holidays to the Sunny Coast and back a few days later spread over time. Now how many Sunny Coast punters want to go to Mildura for the holidays?!! P
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Old 6th Apr 2024, 02:48
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Rockhampton Airport said they carried 100,000 passengers in the first year on Bonza.

Doing the math, they had around 170,000 seats into Rockhampton.

Newcastle has claimed they had 65,000 Bonza passengers in and out of its airport.

They had around 102,000 seats into Newcastle.

What is clear, is this sort of operation would work well with a 120-130 seater.

They said breakeven is at 90%. Trying to penetrate a further 30% into some of these markets in order to make a dollar, is a big ask. I just don’t think the regions can produce such traffic.

This model is likely about 50 years too early, the regions just need to fatten out a bit more before they can hit such numbers.
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Old 6th Apr 2024, 04:58
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What is clear, is this sort of operation would work well with a 120-130 seater.
I would go one step further and stay E190 or E195 would be the best fit.
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Old 6th Apr 2024, 05:39
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
I would go one step further and stay E190 or E195 would be the best fit.
The issue with this is CASM starts to creep which makes the whole low cost high volume game, void. This is where the MAX and NEO efficiencies really come into play, the key being they burn less fuel vs the E190, and carry a significantly better CASM. However, you need the passenger volume to make that work.

If you are a low cost outfit, and you are at your passenger number ceiling on specific routes, with an aircraft too big, the only options are to cancel the route or close the whole place down, a smaller jet isn’t going to solve the issues with the inability to push pricing up as a budget player, your overheads are not exactly falling off a cliff when you downsize to something smaller, especially Embraer.

MAX and NEO are profit machines when full.


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Old 6th Apr 2024, 06:11
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I'm pretty sure 'low cost' carriers are now at a crossroad. With only two major manufacturers building anything worthwhile and one of those struggling to meet orders the cost of aircraft is going to jump significantly over the coming years without significant government subsidies. No one wants to get into the commercial aircraft scene because airlines have screwed the contracts down so far that it's uneconomical and the big players set the conditions. There's a lot more cash in military contracts which is where BAE and SAAB went, and Boeing as well. Second, just like the aircraft manufacturers and suppliers, pilots have also been screwed to the point it's no longer a job of romance or choice, long hours away, mediocre contracts. The industry has cannibalized itself into a corner that is going to cost a lot to dig out from. So whatever expansion the airlines want is completely held back by their own mistakes of the past. Australia is just a few years behind the US where the regionals failed spectacularly over a few short years because of their antiquate methods and contracts.
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Old 6th Apr 2024, 07:57
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
With only two major manufacturers building anything worthwhile and one of those struggling to meet orders the cost of aircraft is going to jump significantly over the coming years without significant government subsidies.
That has already started.

Some operators are now signing heavily priced leases way ahead of time and having them parked for months until needed, purely just to secure them. You will find many idle aircraft which are thought to be leased, simply sitting around have actually already had the contract signed, not required for months or another year. It’s going to get tough in the coming years for Seattle metal, especially the stretched one yet to be certified.

United was even talking about delivery buying slots from other customers also.

You can see why Skytrans are jumping at the charter opportunity, will be significant wet lease work over the coming years to prop up airlines who simply just don’t have the fleet. The luxury of a spare to cover engineering simply will be exactly that, a luxury. Step in Skytrans, Nauru and Wamos.
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Old 6th Apr 2024, 09:05
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
With only two major manufacturers building anything worthwhile and one of those struggling to meet orders the cost of aircraft is going to jump significantly over the coming years without significant government subsidies. No one wants to get into the commercial aircraft scene because airlines have screwed the contracts down so far that it's uneconomical and the big players set the conditions.
Agree with what you said outside of the quote above. Wouldn't this mean its actually prime timing for someone else to step in given the big two cannot meet demand and prices are soaring due a lack of supply?
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Old 6th Apr 2024, 11:12
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That's if you can get planes and pilots. And another storm coming for Australian airlines will be the implementation of proper consumer protections in line with most other countries. It will make it very difficult to cancel/delay flights without significant compensation. The big players have economy of scale and their own pilot channels, even though they are behind at the moment its much better than what a start up will be facing. Plus the likes of QF group still have market power to procure planes. Pretty sure VA and Rex will be first in queue to snap up any slots in Sydney etc that could let loose due to new rules preventing ghost flights hording slots. If Bonza wanted Sydney slots they need to be already operating there to get a foothold.
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Old 6th Apr 2024, 11:29
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I would think Bonza would be happy to wait til 26' for Nancy Bird Walton to open and have unlimited H24 access to Western Sydney ?
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Old 7th Apr 2024, 00:49
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Originally Posted by 10JQKA
I would think Bonza would be happy to wait til 26' for Nancy Bird Walton to open and have unlimited H24 access to Western Sydney ?
That's quite a vote of confidence in not only Bonza's longevity but also WSI's construction programme.
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Old 7th Apr 2024, 02:42
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
That's if you can get planes and pilots. And another storm coming for Australian airlines will be the implementation of proper consumer protections in line with most other countries. It will make it very difficult to cancel/delay flights without significant compensation. The big players have economy of scale and their own pilot channels, even though they are behind at the moment its much better than what a start up will be facing. Plus the likes of QF group still have market power to procure planes. Pretty sure VA and Rex will be first in queue to snap up any slots in Sydney etc that could let loose due to new rules preventing ghost flights hording slots. If Bonza wanted Sydney slots they need to be already operating there to get a foothold.
When you say significant compensation, surely it can’t be more than what the ticket was worth?
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Old 7th Apr 2024, 02:59
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Originally Posted by SHVC
When you say significant compensation, surely it can’t be more than what the ticket was worth?
The EU model (per Regulation (EC) No 261/2004) stipulates a set euro value for compensation for delays.


Source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...sation-delay-1

Cancellations are treated differently. In the case of a cancellation you are entitled to reimbursement, re-routing or return costs, on top of the delay compensation. (https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...m#cancellation)

Last edited by MickG0105; 7th Apr 2024 at 03:27. Reason: Added clarification of total compensation for cancellation
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Old 7th Apr 2024, 04:56
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On top of that if the delays move into prolonged stays the airline has to foot the bill for accommodation and expected living costs, ie meals.

The Ryanair boss had a big cry about it when the Icelandic volcano was blowing it's lid. Most of the response was that he suck it up and not try to sell 5 Euro tickets so the airline can cater for contingencies....
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Old 7th Apr 2024, 05:28
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Originally Posted by MickG0105
That's quite a vote of confidence in not only Bonza's longevity but also WSI's construction programme.
WSI will be ready, in fact, I've heard they were pushing for an earlier start. Other agencies said no.
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