NSW Mil Areas changes 30th November 23

[Lead Balloon]

The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) and Airservices Australia (Airservices) have redesigned Defence’s overland military flying training area airspace in north-western New South Wales to replace the existing [Romeos].

And there was me thinking that CASA, and only CASA, has the power to declare Romeos, because that's what the law says, and there is a criterion in that law as to the basis on which that power may be exercised.

[10JQKA]

So I think all the change documents on Nov30 are now published, new Mil areas central NSW, new routes in out SY and se qld to vic/sa/wa, new sids/stars/routes in out wlm ,e base 65 near wlm, new wlm Mil areas, new routes in out BK, etc etc etc.
Any questions ?
Storm season approaching get ready for a 5 min wait to work out which waypoint you can go to and then another 5 min to wait for bloke on other side of radio to work it out too in amongst 25 other pending requests and the odd 7700 squawk to enter Mil areas as no other options.

[Callsign Please]

Lucky SYD-MRZ is a subsidised route huh.
Hope the JSFs are allowed through TRAs to get to the playground!

[10JQKA]

Originally Posted by Callsign Please

Lucky SYD-MRZ is a subsidised route huh.
Hope the JSFs are allowed through TRAs to get to the playground!

Haha, but seriously I have never heard of anyone who wanted to enter a TRA/TIBA being declined/unauthorised/unapproved.
Is that really a thing ?

[sunnySA]

Originally Posted by 10JQKA

This airspace could send a mob like Bonza broke even before they start ! Imagine trying to get a Sunny Coast to Avalon/Albury/ Mildura flight through that obstacle course !
I pity the ATCs trying to make a silk purse out of that sow's ear of an airspace.

10JQKA Someone might be listening...
AIC H46/23 INTERIM ARRIVAL ROUTES INTO SYDNEY/KINGSFORD SMITH AIRPORT (YSSY) FROM NORTH WEST
Odd title for an AIC which contains relevant information about the new Restricted Areas to the North West of Sydney.
AIC is effective for just 23 hours, 202311291600 to 202311301500 however the significant route changes are forever.

FWIW, the NOTAM has been issued.

C3235/23
ALL ACFT ARRIVING YSSY BTN 231129 1600 AND 231130 1500 FM NW
MUST PLAN VIA SGE OR ROKUU THEN DCT SCO DCT IGDAM DCT SADLO
DCT BOREE DCT TESAT
ACFT USING 30 NOV 2023 AIRAC DATA PLAN AS PER ERSA.
REFER AIC H46/23 FOR FURTHER INFO
FROM 11 200215 TO 11 301500

No YBBB NOTAM has been issued to highlight the issue.

Such significant changes, no doubt all the affected Sector groups have had their simulator sessions highlighting to new points of conflict. It might take a while for the Contingency NOTAMS to be updated.

I'm guessing that Sydney Delivery on Thursday morning will be double staffed during the morning push with all the flights via Richmond.

[Willoz269]

Originally Posted by sunnySA

10JQKA Someone might be listening...
AIC H46/23 INTERIM ARRIVAL ROUTES INTO SYDNEY/KINGSFORD SMITH AIRPORT (YSSY) FROM NORTH WEST
Odd title for an AIC which contains relevant information about the new Restricted Areas to the North West of Sydney.
AIC is effective for just 23 hours, 202311291600 to 202311301500 however the significant route changes are forever.

FWIW, the NOTAM has been issued.


No YBBB NOTAM has been issued to highlight the issue.

Such significant changes, no doubt all the affected Sector groups have had their simulator sessions highlighting to new points of conflict. It might take a while for the Contingency NOTAMS to be updated.

I'm guessing that Sydney Delivery on Thursday morning will be double staffed during the morning push with all the flights via Richmond.

the AIC is only for those aircraft that depart before 1600UTC and wont have the new database. They will be rerouted via waypoints that exist in the old database and the new database, that's why it is only active for 24 hours.

[sunnySA]

Originally Posted by Willoz269

the AIC is only for those aircraft that depart before 1600UTC and wont have the new database. They will be rerouted via waypoints that exist in the old database and the new database, that's why it is only active for 24 hours.

I accept this however my point (poorly made) was that there is a lot of information in the AIC about the new Restricted Areas, new airspace arrangements, dimensions, shape etc that will disappear once the AIC expires.

[Willoz269]

Originally Posted by sunnySA

I accept this however my point (poorly made) was that there is a lot of information in the AIC about the new Restricted Areas, new airspace arrangements, dimensions, shape etc that will disappear once the AIC expires.

Yup, that's what charts, ersa and lots of other official publications are for.

[10JQKA]

Originally Posted by Willoz269

Yup, that's what charts, ersa and lots of other official publications are for.

Sure, but of course that is of little comfort to those stuck working in this woefully designed airspace dog's breakfast outcome.

There is a strip of airspace between the BN FIR and ML FIR between waypoint Mudgee and the next one NW that is 8nm wide and which will now carry all the N NW traffic ex SY (EUR,ME,Asia,Subcontinent,SE QLD, NT, FNQ) as there is no RIC NBR track anymore ! I've been told BN atc has to keep 2.5 from ML and 5nm from Mil and guess what ? the route has been drawn 3 from ML and 5 from Mil ! So a 1nm offset cannot even be quickly approved !

Unfortunately charts don't give a real flavour of what it might be like in there. Good luck.

[sunnySA]

Originally Posted by Willoz269

Yup, that's what charts, ersa and lots of other official publications are for.

Fair enough, just follow the magenta line.

[missy]

Originally Posted by 10JQKA

I pity the ATCs trying to make a silk purse out of that sow's ear of an airspace.

Sorry, I should've paid more attention to this thread. I used to work this airspace, Sydney Sector 6 and I was one of the check controllers on this airspace. It was later split between Melbourne and Brisbane Centres, and Melbourne split the airspace into 2 or was it 3 or 4?

It's sad to see radical and arguably unnecessary permanent airspace arrangements. Airspace and air routes can and do change, in the 1980's ML to BN/CG to ML traffic used to use a reciprocal route. Then various other city pairings commenced, AD to BN/CG, and ML to CS etc, and traffic levels meant laterally separated routes. More point to point city parings, all these crossing over the SY to SE Asia traffic.

There is a strip of airspace between the BN FIR and ML FIR between waypoint Mudgee and the next one NW that is 8nm wide and which will now carry all the N NW traffic ex SY (EUR,ME,Asia,Subcontinent,SE QLD, NT, FNQ) as there is no RIC NBR track anymore ! I've been told BN atc has to keep 2.5 from ML and 5nm from Mil and guess what ? the route has been drawn 3 from ML and 5 from Mil !
Unfortunately charts don't give a real flavour of what it might be like in there.

I have reviewed the charts and some of the routes appear ill-conceived.

I'm sure the ATC's on the day will "make it work" but such an unnecessary imposition. The display ranges used by these Sector Groups will make it more difficult.

Good luck. Missy.

[sunnySA]

C3105/23
ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FLIGHT PLAN REQUIREMENTS SECTION 1.1 AMD
1.1 SYDNEY DEPARTURES - JETS - NORTH WEST
REMOVE PLAN VIA ROC H530 TO KABIX
ADD PLAN VIA RIC H530 TO KABIX

1.1 SYDNEY DEPARTURES - JETS - NORTH (PORTS TO YBSU)
REMOVE OLSEM H252 UPNEX. VERTICAL REQUIREMENTS APPLY REFER AIP DAP
BLW FL270 OR UNABLE TO MEET VERTICAL REQUIREMENTS MUST PLAN UPNEX
H140 MATLA
ADD OLSEM Y193 BANDA. VERTICAL REQUIREMENTS APPLY REFER AIP DAP
BLW FL250 OR UNABLE TO MEET VERTICAL REQUIREMENTS MUST PLAN OLSEM
H252 UPNEX H140 MATLA
FROM 11 291600 TO PERM

Problem solved!

[sunnySA]

Originally Posted by 10JQKA

Sure, but of course that is of little comfort to those stuck working in this woefully designed airspace dog's breakfast outcome.

There is a strip of airspace between the BN FIR and ML FIR between waypoint Mudgee and the next one NW that is 8nm wide and which will now carry all the N NW traffic ex SY (EUR,ME,Asia,Subcontinent,SE QLD, NT, FNQ) as there is no RIC NBR track anymore ! I've been told BN atc has to keep 2.5 from ML and 5nm from Mil and guess what ? the route has been drawn 3 from ML and 5 from Mil ! So a 1nm offset cannot even be quickly approved !

Unfortunately charts don't give a real flavour of what it might be like in there. Good luck.

Maybe BN ATC can use 2.5NM from MIL
MATS changes (version 66)

Expands the use of half the applicable ATS surveillance system separation minimum from a system displayed map boundary to include when the boundary is with military controlled airspace or control zone.

[DROPS]

So how did it all go?

[10JQKA]

It's like walking a 1000kg gorilla around on a leash that you know at some point will take off on you ! but it won't be evident to operators until WLM areas come back for real (F360/F600 LUL) mid Jan 24, in the meantime enjoy the track shortenings, and WLM stars, tra/tibas and don't tease the gorilla.

[10JQKA]

We will all get our 1st look at the Nov 30 NSW new mil areas tomorrow. 2130-0600 utc A100-F580. Would be good to get feedback on it.

[sunnySA]

PSA

C19/24
R570A ACT (RA2)
W658 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 192130 TO 02 220600
2402192130 TO 2402200600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C20/24
R570B ACT (RA2)
Q238 AND Q293 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 192130 TO 02 220600
2402192130 TO 2402200600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C13/24
R570C ACT (RA2)
Y46 AND Q16 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 192130 TO 02 220600
2402192130 TO 2402200600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C14/24
R570D ACT (RA2)
Q238, Q293, Q16 AND Y46 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 192130 TO 02 220600
2402192130 TO 2402200600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C23/24
R570E ACT (RA2)
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 192130 TO 02 220600
2402192130 TO 2402200600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C22/24
R570F ACT (RA2)
Q238 AND Q293 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 192130 TO 02 220600
2402192130 TO 2402200600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C25/24
R570G ACT (RA2)
Y46 AND Q16 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 192130 TO 02 220600
2402192130 TO 2402200600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C26/24
R570H ACT (RA2)
Q238, Q293, Q16 AND Y46 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 192130 TO 02 220600
2402192130 TO 2402200600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

Daily 2130 to 0600. How many times will these NOTAMs be amended? Asking for a friend...

[sunnySA]

C34/24 REVIEW C26/24
R570H ACT (RA2)
Q238, Q293, Q16 AND Y46 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 202130 TO 02 220600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C33/24 REVIEW C25/24
R570G ACT (RA2)
Y46 AND Q16 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 202130 TO 02 220600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C32/24 REVIEW C22/24
R570F ACT (RA2)
Q238 AND Q293 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 202130 TO 02 220600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C31/24 REVIEW C23/24
R570E ACT (RA2)
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 202130 TO 02 220600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C29/24 REVIEW C14/24
R570D ACT (RA2)
Q238, Q293, Q16 AND Y46 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 202130 TO 02 220600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C28/24 REVIEW C13/24
R570C ACT (RA2)
Y46 AND Q16 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 202130 TO 02 220600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C30/24 REVIEW C20/24
R570B ACT (RA2)
Q238 AND Q293 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 202130 TO 02 220600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C27/24 REVIEW C19/24
R570A ACT (RA2)
W658 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 202130 TO 02 220600
2402202130 TO 2402210600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

WWX'd

[sunnySA]

C68/24 REVIEW C50/24
R570H ACT (RA2)
Q238, Q293, Q16 AND Y46 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 212130 TO 02 220600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C67/24 REVIEW C49/24
R570G ACT (RA2)
Y46 AND Q16 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 212130 TO 02 220600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C66/24 REVIEW C48/24
R570F ACT (RA2)
Q238 AND Q293 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 212130 TO 02 220600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C65/24 REVIEW C47/24
R570E ACT (RA2)
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
FL360 TO FL580
FROM 02 212130 TO 02 220600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C64/24 REVIEW C46/24
R570D ACT (RA2)
Q238, Q293, Q16 AND Y46 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 212130 TO 02 220600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C63/24 REVIEW C45/24
R570C ACT (RA2)
Y46 AND Q16 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 212130 TO 02 220600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C62/24 REVIEW C44/24
R570B ACT (RA2)
Q238 AND Q293 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 212130 TO 02 220600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

C61/24 REVIEW C43/24
R570A ACT (RA2)
W658 NOT AVAILABLE FOR FLIGHT PLANNING A100 OR ABV
REFER TO ENR SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA) FPL REQUIREMENTS FOR AFFECTED
ROUTES
10000FT AMSL TO FL360
FROM 02 212130 TO 02 220600
2402212130 TO 2402220600

WWX'd again.

[sunnySA]

Originally Posted by sunnySA

How many times will these NOTAMs be amended?

It seems that 3 is the answer.

What don't they just issue 3 NOTAMs, one for each flying day?