Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Tassie Approach TIBA

Old 2nd Sep 2022, 08:26
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DUS, all good but I know what would happen if I elected to continue, given the option of a turnback, and a TCAS RA occurred in the TIBA airspace. Our management is not known for its grace when the pineapple option is always available.
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 08:33
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
DUS, all good but I know what would happen if I elected to continue, given the option of a turnback, and a TCAS RA occurred in the TIBA airspace. Our management is not known for its grace when the pineapple option is always available.
You're not wrong there.
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 17:26
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
Regardless of whether one can/should operate TIBA, is anyone in Australia paid enough to think 'this airspace is normally required to be controlled, but since ATC are short staffed I'll wear the risk and liability to get the job done'?

No thanks, turn back and let the airlines and airservices squabble over it.
Then again, Im not inclined to go the extra mile at the best of times.
Exactly. Just because you can get away with it, should you have to be taking the risk?. especially when Airservices insist they have 100 more controllers than they need, and the airspace has been designated class.c.or e or whatever in the first place for a reason.


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Old 4th Sep 2022, 09:59
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
Regardless of whether one can/should operate TIBA, is anyone in Australia paid enough to think 'this airspace is normally required to be controlled, but since ATC are short staffed I'll wear the risk and liability to get the job done'?

No thanks, turn back and let the airlines and airservices squabble over it.
Then again, Im not inclined to go the extra mile at the best of times.
Sure is.
I'm one of them. Don't particularly have an issue with it. Not too different from operating in Class G that most of us have operated in at some point in time. "all stations... I am coming through!".
Of course it means having faith in the other users of the airspace doing the right thing. But to be fair, there is not many others hacking around the sky at the times I fly, so my risk is certainly much less.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 10:50
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“TIBA airspace South of the Gold Coast Ansett 1234 currently 47nm bearing 178 degrees from position PEBTO at FL340 estimating PEBTO at 27”

”Ansett 1234 this is Transair 567, we are currently 44nm bearing 146 degrees from position MAKKA also at FL340 which I think is 2nm South of PEBTO, estimating MAKKA at 26, just confirm we’ll be clear?”

”Traffic around PEBTO Topend 678 currently 8nm north of PEBTO tracking Southbound at FL330”
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 11:25
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Originally Posted by KRviator View Post
Goes to show we don't really need en-route & approach controller's, eh? I mean, if it is safe now without them, even temporarily, then it is still safe without them on a permanent basis, yes? Ain't no such thing as temporary safety, it's like your missus being pregger's, she either is or she isn’t
not sure if this is a joke or not? Close your eyes and cross a quiet road. Didn’t die? Must be just as safe as doing it with your eyes open. Do it again tomorrow. And then the next day. And so on.
Safety is not an absolute.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 21:38
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PIC may have had the discretion to continue (if TIBA announced inflight) but I doubt they would have the choice to knowingly dispatch into it again on departure (Ie when they were returning to the capital city they originated from.

Would probably have been stranded in MKY.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 07:34
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Always amazed how smug we all sound about no problem flying through this, just do x,y and z.

Until you hear the confusion and questioning voices as the pilot approaches FL180 or whatever the intermediate assigned level is out of the terminal area "requesting further climb".

Only for it to be reiterated you are now on your own, climb at your own discretion. Many even unaware they are entering TIBA because of a disconnect between late issues of NOTAM and a dispatch system that hasn't picked it up yet .

This is not normal, and it should not be treated as such.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 22:29
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Is anyone listening?

Pilots are concerned about the safety of increased reliance on uncontrolled airspace due to temporary air traffic controller shortages ... the issue was unprecedented, worsening and increasing risks to the point some airlines were delaying flights. AusALPA (& AFAP) president and Qantas Link pilot Captain Louise Pole told The Australian some airlines were delaying flights rather than operate while TIBA was in place. “It (TIBA) means the workload for a pilot is a lot higher and that makes your job harder, and it does create more risk because you are not operating in a normal (situation).” She said in 30 years of flying, she had not flown TIBA until two weeks ago, and had since flown it twice, most recently on Monday. Civil Air Australia president and #airtrafficcontroller Tom McRobert said 120 controllers had taken early retirement under the program, reducing “resilience” to deal with staffing issues. He said the scheme had arguably cut twice as many as was wise and this was the “root cause” of the use of TIBA. “We are seeing more TIBAs in the last six months than I’ve ever seen in my nearly 20 years (in the job)". Airservices Australia #AirServices #trafficcontrol #aviation #ausalpa
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 02:36
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So Sunny Coast goes from D to G but Rockhampton goes to a Restricted Area with a mountain of things to do to get in there? Why?
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 09:49
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Would it be that hard, given it appears likely TIBA will be an ongoing issue for a while, to have a graphical map as NAIPS provides for weather phenomena to make it easier to see at a glance where the affected airspace is and whether TIBA airspace is likely to be an issue on any given flight?

As the current linked maps at …notammaps/index.asp are a cumbersome way to check and each map appears to only cover a relatively small area.
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 10:50
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Originally Posted by DROPS View Post
Is anyone listening?

Pilots are concerned about the safety of increased reliance on uncontrolled airspace due to temporary air traffic controller shortages ... the issue was unprecedented, worsening and increasing risks to the point some airlines were delaying flights. AusALPA (& AFAP) president and Qantas Link pilot Captain Louise Pole told The Australian some airlines were delaying flights rather than operate while TIBA was in place. “It (TIBA) means the workload for a pilot is a lot higher and that makes your job harder, and it does create more risk because you are not operating in a normal (situation).” She said in 30 years of flying, she had not flown TIBA until two weeks ago, and had since flown it twice, most recently on Monday. Civil Air Australia president and #airtrafficcontroller Tom McRobert said 120 controllers had taken early retirement under the program, reducing “resilience” to deal with staffing issues. He said the scheme had arguably cut twice as many as was wise and this was the “root cause” of the use of TIBA. “We are seeing more TIBAs in the last six months than I’ve ever seen in my nearly 20 years (in the job)". Airservices Australia #AirServices #trafficcontrol #aviation #ausalpa
Make a REPCON to ATSB. I’m sure they’ll investigate the facts and risks quickly and efficiently, before concluding that everything’s ‘acceptably safe’.
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 23:08
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So Sunny Coast goes from D to G but Rockhampton goes to a Restricted Area with a mountain of things to do to get in there? Why?
The new "Approach" service ROK and MKY has is the difference. Approach is going TIBA, not the Tower. That leaves the airspace from ground to 4500 left unable to be managed by anyone expect Approach during Tower hours. A few months ago it would have been the same as the Sunshine Coast, and far less complex.
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