Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Tassie Approach TIBA

Old 31st Aug 2022, 12:54
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Tassie Approach TIBA

HBA and LST have only recently been given approach controllers and they’re already going TIBA…
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 14:02
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Cairns, Mackay & Rockhamptom airspace, as well as parts of NSW and QLD enroute, have all gone TIBA numerous times over the last couple of weeks as well. It's actually disgraceful that Airservices can't provide an air traffic service. I'm also surprised the media hasn't caught wind that aircraft are flying through airspace with no air traffic control (not even the level of service that Class G has).
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 22:03
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Goes to show we don't really need en-route & approach controller's, eh? I mean, if it is safe now without them, even temporarily, then it is still safe without them on a permanent basis, yes? Ain't no such thing as temporary safety, it's like your missus being pregger's, she either is or she ain't.

I genuinely feel for the frontline ATC'ers here, being asked to do more with less and even so, being unable to provide the level of service they know we expect through no fault of their own.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 22:11
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Originally Posted by VH-FTS View Post
It's actually disgraceful that Airservices can't provide an air traffic service. I'm also surprised the media hasn't caught wind that aircraft are flying through airspace with no air traffic control (not even the level of service that Class G has).
Thats because they accepted the CEO's quote a week or so ago that stated that they have enough staff to provide a full service. I read the article at a time when Gold Coast tower had just cancelled all circuit training for the day due to in adaquate staffing levels at YBCG.

Heard on the grapevine that a JStar flight SYD-MKY turn back mid flight when suddenly advised of the NOTAM of TIBA. Why Mackay Tower couldnt take responsibliity for the airspace above them (as they have up until very recently) is beyond me.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 22:20
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Seems unlikely. We can fly through tiba provided it's announced after dispatch.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 22:26
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Originally Posted by Stretch06 View Post

Heard on the grapevine that a JStar flight SYD-MKY turn back mid flight when suddenly advised of the NOTAM of TIBA. Why Mackay Tower couldnt take responsibliity for the airspace above them (as they have up until very recently) is beyond me.
SYD-MKY not a Star route
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 23:02
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Seems unlikely. We can fly through tiba provided it's announced after dispatch.
And if you had an RA or worse as you transited through that airspace how do you think the company would react…? How do you think the general public would react to 200 people being killed if you thought “ah she’ll be right, let’s just go through it”
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 23:48
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
SYD-MKY not a Star route
Maybe not SYD then, but a JStar enroute to MKY turned back instead of deal with the TIBA airspace.
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Old 1st Sep 2022, 00:09
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Originally Posted by Stretch06 View Post
Maybe not SYD then, but a JStar enroute to MKY turned back instead of deal with the TIBA airspace.
That would have to have been JQ888, the daily from BNE. What was the rough timeframe for when this was meant to have happened?

Here you go. 2 August.


Last edited by MickG0105; 1st Sep 2022 at 01:04. Reason: Fixed.
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Old 1st Sep 2022, 02:24
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Originally Posted by Stretch06 View Post
Why Mackay Tower couldnt take responsibliity for the airspace above them (as they have up until very recently) is beyond me.
Because their endorsement on the Mackay Approach airspace is no longer valid.
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Old 1st Sep 2022, 06:05
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
And if you had an RA or worse as you transited through that airspace how do you think the company would react…? How do you think the general public would react to 200 people being killed if you thought “ah she’ll be right, let’s just go through it”
Same way they'd react anytime I flew through any other kind of uncontrolled airspace? Which is almost every day?

Or are you telling me you have a habit of flying halfway to Ballina and then turning around? If a crew were to turn around instead of proceed nobody would bat an eye. In my experience with TIBA at the star, most people have forged on. I see no issue with either decision.


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Old 1st Sep 2022, 07:57
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DUS, you might want to aquaint yourself with the OM1 requirements for operating into TIBA. The crew going to MKY obviously did.
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Old 1st Sep 2022, 12:32
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
DUS, you might want to aquaint yourself with the OM1 requirements for operating into TIBA. The crew going to MKY obviously did.
Had another look, still happy. PIC decision.

edit : Fair point in regard to my first post though, its correct to say a diversion is more likely than not, if you have the fuel. So fair play.
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Old 1st Sep 2022, 13:06
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
DUS, you might want to aquaint yourself with the OM1 requirements for operating into TIBA. The crew going to MKY obviously did.
Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Had another look, still happy. PIC decision.

edit : Fair point in regard to my first post though, its correct to say a diversion is more likely than not, if you have the fuel. So fair play.
For those of us up the back in the cheap seats, could I trouble either of you to explain this a bit further please.
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Old 1st Sep 2022, 13:08
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Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
For those of us up the back in the cheap seats, could I trouble either of you to explain this a bit further please.
I said at the start of the thread that I thought a turn back was unlikely if TIBA airspace was activated whilst already in flight. TIBA being deactivated controlled airspace, essentially class G with no ATS services. Usually the result of staff shortages in ATC.

Our manuals allows us to fly through TIBA if its activated after takeoff, however they do say the PIC should divert it able to avoid it. So my original comment isn't accurate.
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Old 1st Sep 2022, 13:41
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
I said at the start of the thread that I thought a turn back was unlikely if TIBA airspace was activated whilst already in flight. TIBA being deactivated controlled airspace, essentially class G with no ATS services. Usually the result of staff shortages in ATC.

Our manuals allows us to fly through TIBA if its activated after takeoff, however they do say the PIC should divert it able to avoid it. So my original comment isn't accurate.
Thanks for that.
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Old 1st Sep 2022, 22:57
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Same way they'd react anytime I flew through any other kind of uncontrolled airspace? Which is almost every day?

Or are you telling me you have a habit of flying halfway to Ballina and then turning around? If a crew were to turn around instead of proceed nobody would bat an eye. In my experience with TIBA at the star, most people have forged on. I see no issue with either decision.
You don’t honestly think TIBA airspace above 10,000 is the same as Class G do you? Do you understand what the difference is? You are aware that class G has speed requirements, ATC support amongst others things and TIBA does not.

It’s significantly safer and more predictable organising separation going into Paraburdoo where you have generally standard radio calls and positions and your doing a speed where you’ll be able to see traffic…
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 00:56
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
You don’t honestly think TIBA airspace above 10,000 is the same as Class G do you? Do you understand what the difference is? You are aware that class G has speed requirements, ATC support amongst others things and TIBA does not.
Class G has speed requirements above 10,000? News to me.

Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
It’s significantly safer and more predictable organising separation going into Paraburdoo where you have generally standard radio calls and positions and your doing a speed where you’ll be able to see traffic…
TIBA has standard radio calls (AIP Gen 3.3), from standard positions. The speed? Standard jet profile is into 280. How is that materially different from 250? The only operational difference I can work out is that ATS aren't there to give you traffic information (at least, that which they can see). Not ideal, fair enough.

Last edited by das Uber Soldat; 2nd Sep 2022 at 05:49.
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 02:19
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You guys have obviously never been out of the kindergarten that is Australian airspace, try operating anywhere in Africa from the Sahara south, running through the red sea "station calling Cairo" while dodging ELAL transiting right down the FIR boundary not talking to anyone or transiting Kaos Corner in the eastern Mediterranean in a jet with magnificent variations on language, aircraft performance, human performance, and toss in a sky god or two..... and the US military messing with GPS signals every now and then.
TIBA pales into insignificance.
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Old 2nd Sep 2022, 03:11
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Regardless of whether one can/should operate TIBA, is anyone in Australia paid enough to think 'this airspace is normally required to be controlled, but since ATC are short staffed I'll wear the risk and liability to get the job done'?

No thanks, turn back and let the airlines and airservices squabble over it.
Then again, Im not inclined to go the extra mile at the best of times.
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