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Qantas Court Loss

Old 4th May 2022, 02:53
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Qantas Court Loss

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-...ties/101036724

This could cost them a few bucks.

Qantas has lost its appeal against a Federal Court decision that found the outsourcing of about 2,000 ground crew workers was illegal.

Last year, in one of the largest reinstatement cases ever heard, the Federal Court found in favour of the Transport Workers Union (TWU) against Qantas in challenging the outsourcing of about 2,000 jobs by the airline.

It found Qantas' decision to outsource the baggage-handling and cleaning jobs was in breach of the Fair Work Act.

Qantas appealed that decision, but the Full Federal Court on Wednesday dismissed the airline's attempt to overturn a ruling that it sacked workers illegally.

Further remedy hearings will now take place to determine the compensation Qantas should pay to workers, as well as the penalties for the illegal sackings.

In December, the Federal Court rejected TWU's application for reinstatement of workers' jobs.

The TWU is now calling for a substantial compensation package for workers.

It also has called on the Qantas board to sack its chief executive, Alan Joyce, and the key decision-maker in the outsourcing case, domestic and international chief executive Andrew David.

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 4th May 2022 at 03:22. Reason: Fix quote
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Old 4th May 2022, 04:33
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Great news hopefully they be reinstated and we can all get our bags within 10mins of landing not like the 30 plus minutes now if at all.

Last edited by Jet Jockey; 4th May 2022 at 04:43.
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Old 4th May 2022, 04:35
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QF are taking it to the high court, apparently the federal court judges werenít sympathetic enough to the cause.
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Old 4th May 2022, 05:03
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Further remedy hearings will now take place to determine the compensation Qantas should pay to workers, as well as the penalties for the illegal sackings.
They will put it down to the cost of "reform". Pay the fines, pay some compensation then carry on with a lower cost base which will recover the cost of the fines in five years.
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Old 4th May 2022, 05:43
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Are the High Court Judges in the Chairman's Lounge? If so then that is a serious issue.
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Old 4th May 2022, 05:47
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hopefully they be reinstated
The courts found against re-instatement, best they can hope for is a significant payout amount.
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Old 4th May 2022, 05:55
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So rather than copping it on the chin and excepting they they were wrong and what they did was illegal , Alan and Co are going to spend more of the company's money so that they don't have to spend more of the company's money. Idiots
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Old 4th May 2022, 06:05
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So rather than copping it on the chin and excepting they they were wrong and what they did was illegal , Alan and Co are going to spend more of the company's money so that they don't have to spend more of the company's money. Idiots
It's ideological not rational.

Not to mention that there is probably some psychology at play. Alan likes to throw his weight around the big end of town show them all who is boss.
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Old 4th May 2022, 07:34
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Originally Posted by Bootstrap1
So rather than copping it on the chin and excepting they they were wrong and what they did was illegal , Alan and Co are going to spend more of the company's money so that they don't have to spend more of the company's money. Idiots
They never admit to being wrong,they only like decisions which favour them & people who agree with them.
Maybe his initials should be changed to JC because thats what he thinks he is & his little puppy dog ass licking ex kiwi farmer is no better.
Idiots is a very generous term for them,they are an insult to the airline that was once looked upon as an icon & the only spirit left is the 'mean' spirit they both excel at.
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Old 4th May 2022, 09:53
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Originally Posted by Bootstrap1
So rather than copping it on the chin and excepting they they were wrong and what they did was illegal , Alan and Co are going to spend more of the company's money so that they don't have to spend more of the company's money. Idiots
Seriously?

accepting not excepting, their meanings are completely opposite.

Last edited by Peter Fanelli; 4th May 2022 at 10:41.
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Old 4th May 2022, 11:21
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
They will put it down to the cost of "reform". Pay the fines, pay some compensation then carry on with a lower cost base which will recover the cost of the fines in five years.
Bingo! You got it in one. The leprechaun is thinking ahead, beyond today. Shaft the rampies and use COVID as the cover for it. Then get fined in court and pay compensation. Nothing will change as those rampies wonít be returning. Use cheap outsourced ground handlers who will be cheaper in the long turn.
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Old 4th May 2022, 12:47
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Hello, Qantas? I'd like a ticket to Sydney, but I want my bags sent to Darwin.
"Sorry - we can't do that sir!
Well, you managed to do it last time.
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Old 4th May 2022, 13:59
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377
Bingo! You got it in one. The leprechaun is thinking ahead, beyond today. Shaft the rampies and use COVID as the cover for it. Then get fined in court and pay compensation. Nothing will change as those rampies wonít be returning. Use cheap outsourced ground handlers who will be cheaper in the long turn.
Perhaps an appropriate penalty would be to pay the salaries of the sacked rampies including annual leave and other benefits until their nominal retirement date adjusted for inflation. Ought to stop them doing it again. Or they could get a slap on the wrist.
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Old 4th May 2022, 23:02
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https://www.fwc.gov.au/unfair-dismissal

I am not sure that this is what will apply but as a guide in the case of unfair dismissal the MAXIMUM compensation is SIX months wages to a maximum of $79,250.
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Old 5th May 2022, 02:58
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Originally Posted by StudentInDebt
Perhaps an appropriate penalty would be to pay the salaries of the sacked rampies including annual leave and other benefits until their nominal retirement date adjusted for inflation. Ought to stop them doing it again. Or they could get a slap on the wrist.
Iíve always said the penalty should be 10 times the benefit where a deliberate act has been proven.
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Old 5th May 2022, 03:08
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Begs the question of (Assuming QF lose the High Court appeal too) whether the ramp rats will have a civil claim against Qantas in addition to any legal penalty. I dunno what the TWU has put forward in their statement of claim nor do I know what the average salary would've been but if you're (for example) 30, on a good roster, have good performance reports and pretty good salary, there's no reason to assume you'd leave the job so that's 35 years ahead of you that you've lost that pay & conditions.
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Old 5th May 2022, 04:28
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but if you're (for example) 30, on a good roster, have good performance reports and pretty good salary, there's no reason to assume you'd leave the job so that's 35 years ahead of you that you've lost that pay & conditions.
How many 64 year old ramp staff have you seen lately?

How many ramp staff over fifty do you see?
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Old 5th May 2022, 08:06
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
https://www.fwc.gov.au/unfair-dismissal

I am not sure that this is what will apply but as a guide in the case of unfair dismissal the MAXIMUM compensation is SIX months wages to a maximum of $79,250.

While that may be the precedent for the amount payable to each displaced worker, the Court can award punitive damages for each and every infraction and - at the Court's discretion (and who would begrudge the Court for hammering them in their attempt(s) to overturn the verdict) that could be substantial.

Assuming of course that there are not some hurried Chairman's Lounge renewals hurried through. No, never.
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Old 5th May 2022, 08:53
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Talking

Originally Posted by Icarus2001
How many 64 year old ramp staff have you seen lately?

At SYD SIT (T1) there were plenty, prior to QF deciding that the business was in such bad shape that they needed to punt the lot!!

How many ramp staff over fifty do you see?
We don't need to look to hard to see that on both sides of SYD, i.e. DOM & INTL precincts, there are plenty of over fifties working for all ground handlers.
Please do not assume that SYD Ground Service Providers (GSPs as they are described in 2022) have been over-run with fresh young staff during the COVID-19, there were lots of "old" desperates also wanting a start.
None of them happy about the diminished pay rates, but there are lots of shifts to fill and some reasonable money on doing big hours. Oh, they get to sniff JET A1 and hang around aeroplanes.
Anyone working anywhere in this industry knows that it's a race to the bottom!!


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Old 5th May 2022, 09:02
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
How many 64 year old ramp staff have you seen lately?

How many ramp staff over fifty do you see?
There probably werent any or many 64yr olds but there were lots in their 50's who had lots of experience & the 'knowhow' to identify & fix a problem quickly.
Right now there is none of that & even if some of these guys are working for a contractor their job now is just to turn up,load or unload the baggage & leave the problem solving to somebody else thus its not hard to work out why baggage is often either not going or going somewhere it was never intended to go.
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