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The New rules interpretation thread.

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The New rules interpretation thread.

Old 15th Jun 2021, 12:56
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The New rules interpretation thread.

So you’re in the left seat from Sydney to Perth at FL380. Can you take a pee in the lav without either copping a $8500 dollar fine or descending OCTA?

91.635 Communication monitoring in controlled airspaces
(1) The pilot in command of an aircraft for a flight contravenes this subregulation if:
(a) during the flight, the aircraft is flown in controlled airspace; and
(b) the pilot in command does not continuously monitor the primary communications medium used by air traffic control while flying in that airspace.
(2) A person commits an offence of strict liability if the person contravenes subregulation (1).
Penalty: 50 penalty units.

91.640 Use of radio outside controlled airspaces—listening watch of radio transmissions
(1) The pilot in command of an aircraft for a flight contravenes this subregulation if:
(a) the aircraft is fitted with, or carries, a radio; and
(b) the aircraft is flown by a pilot who is qualified, eligible or authorised to use the radio:
(i) for an Australian aircraft (other than a Part 103 aircraft or a Part 131 aircraft)—under Part 61 or 64; or
(ii) for a foreign registered aircraft—under a law of the aircraft's State of registry or the State of the operator; or
(iii) for a Part 103 aircraft—by a Part 103 ASAO; or
(iv) for a Part 131 aircraft—by a Part 131 pilot authorisation; and
(c) the aircraft is outside controlled airspace; and
(d) radio transmissions are not continuously monitored by:
(i) the pilot in command of the aircraft for the flight; or
(ii) another pilot who occupies a pilot seat during the flight.
(2) A person commits an offence of strict liability if the person contravenes subregulation (1).
Penalty: 50 penalty units.

Last edited by compressor stall; 16th Jun 2021 at 12:03. Reason: bolding
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 13:17
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In my previous airline - (EK) - when CM1 left the flight deck, CM2 becomes the Pilot in Command.
So I don't see any rule contravention there Compressor Stall.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 13:24
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Yes, logical, but in reference to this?
121.495 Pilot in command
(1) A pilot is qualified as pilot in command for a flight of an aeroplane if:
(a) the pilot meets the minimum flying experience requirements specified, in accordance with subregulation (2), in the aeroplane operator's exposition for the aeroplane; and
(b) the pilot has successfully completed command training that complies with regulation 121.565 for the aeroplane operator and an aeroplane; and
(c) the pilot is:
(i) if the aeroplane is an Australian aircraft—authorised to pilot the aeroplane during the flight as pilot in command under Part 61; or
(ii) if the aeroplane is a foreign registered aircraft—authorised to pilot the aeroplane during the flight as pilot in command by the aeroplane's State of registry.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)(a), the aeroplane operator's exposition must include minimum flying experience requirements for all aeroplanes operated by the operator for Part 121 operations.
and why only when OCTA can it be another pilot? 91.640 1(d)2.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 23:27
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“Monitoring” and “listening watch” are similar.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 23:48
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Originally Posted by t_cas View Post
“Monitoring” and “listening watch” are similar.
Dunno about you but I can't do either "continuously" from the pisser.

The existing rules CAR 243 make sense - the PIC ensures that one is maintained. This is akin to the new OCTA one. But why in the new regs when in CTA is it different being PIC only? And the fine has doubled from 25 penalty units to 50?

CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988 - REG 243

(1) When an aircraft is equipped with radio apparatus for use during flight, the pilot in command must maintain a listening watch, or must ensure that a listening watch is maintained, at all times commencing immediately prior to the time at which the aircraft commences to move on the manoeuvring area prior to flight and lasting until the aircraft is brought to a stop at the apron or other point of termination of the flight.

Last edited by compressor stall; 16th Jun 2021 at 00:39.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 23:55
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
So you’re in the left seat from Sydney to Perth at FL380. Can you take a pee in the lav without either copping a $8500 dollar fine or descending OCTA?
Can you reach the toilet bowl from the left seat?
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 00:36
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and text to make 10
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 02:04
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 06:06
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Most Airlines F/O’s have a command Instrument rating on type so I would say that would satisfy the Command training they speak of. Having said that the CARS have always been a dogs breakfast designed for a barnstorming operation, so I’d rather interpret the intent, not the actual meaning.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 07:01
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
So you’re in the left seat from Sydney to Perth at FL380. Can you take a pee in the lav without either copping a $8500 dollar fine or descending OCTA?
Try 121.535 Relief of Pilot in Command:

(1) The operator and the pilot in command of an aeroplane for a flight each contravene this subregulation if:
(a) the pilot in command delegates the conduct of the flight; and
(b) the delegation is not permitted by either subregulation (2) or (3).
General
(2) The pilot in command of an aeroplane for a flight may delegate the conduct of the flight to a pilot who is qualified under regulation 121.495 as pilot in command for the flight.
Flight above flight level 200
(3) The pilot in command of an aeroplane for a flight may delegate the conduct of the flight above flight level 200 to a pilot who meets the requirements mentioned in subregulation (4).
(4) The requirements are as follows:
(a) the pilot must hold an air transport pilot licence;
(b) the pilot must be qualified under regulation 121.500 as co‑pilot for the flight;
(c) the pilot must have the flying experience required by regulation 121.480 for the flight;
(d) the pilot must have the knowledge of the route of the flight required by the operator’s exposition.
(5) For the purposes of paragraph (4)(d), the operator’s exposition must include the knowledge the pilot must have of the route of the flight.
I take that to mean the PIC can delegate command of the aircraft to an appropriately qualified co-pilot above FL200.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 07:52
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There is much confusing of PIC being in the flight deck or handling the controls. They are not related.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 08:50
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Originally Posted by BuzzBox View Post
Try 121.535 Relief of Pilot in Command:



I take that to mean the PIC can delegate command of the aircraft to an appropriately qualified co-pilot above FL200.
Not if they don’t have an ATPL, which is common for FO’s in today’s age of an ATPL flight test.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 09:38
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Only says you must monitor, not respond 👍
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 09:38
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But then Second officers with cruise relief ratings regularly solo from the left or right seat while the FO or captain relieve themselves.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 11:09
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Originally Posted by Sparrows. View Post
Not if they don’t have an ATPL, which is common for FO’s in today’s age of an ATPL flight test.
I did say 'appropriately qualified', ie with an ATPL as per the regs.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 11:42
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The ‘R’egulations work fine, CASA says so. And Mr Carmody got a medal and a reacharound by the Queen for his service to aviation, so the Regs simply must be ok.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 11:48
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Pretty much everything wrong with this once fine industry right here!
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 22:51
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Can’t they just install a radio in the bog. And while they are at it, duplicates of the major instruments. A couple of video screens would fit surely. Could probably get a control yoke in as well. And some rudder pedals.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 22:54
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Originally Posted by Blueskymine View Post
But then Second officers with cruise relief ratings regularly solo from the left or right seat while the FO or captain relieve themselves.
True, and common sense should prevail. Unfortunately, ‘CASA’ and ‘common sense’ seem to be mutually exclusive.
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Old 17th Jun 2021, 02:25
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Sounds like a good question for your Friendly Operations Inspector!
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