Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Qantas outsources ground handling, slams TWU proposal

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qantas outsources ground handling, slams TWU proposal

Old 1st Dec 2020, 05:08
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
Age: 69
Posts: 435
Joyce had plans to outsource ground handling back when he took over in 2008. In fact, he had discussions with Dixon back when Dixon was Chief Excrement Officiator at QF during AJís early Jetstar days. The idea was to have EGH or someone similar do the ground handling on both JQ and QF aircraft. Some of us who have Ďconsultedí with these airlines have seen many a publicly unseen paper/proposal that confirms this. But the timing wasnít right as there was a lack of appetite for a war with the unions. However today is now the perfect environment for the little parasite to celebrate his 12th year as QF CEO (last weekend) and outsource the ground crew. Naturally, it all falls under the ĎCOVID mantraí and financial difficulties the airline faces due to these Ďunprecedented timesí. The white shoe brigade like Joyce and Hrdlicka will always see to capitalise on a shitty situation so as to benefit their personal pockets at the expense of other human beings. That is not a sticking point for a CEO, the hurt done to innocent parties/employees/third party providers because CEOís are sociopaths and have no heart, just a big dark empty cavern.

And Joyceís move will flow down to Qantas engineering who will have less GSE to service, and there will be no more aircraft Engineers walking the aircraft out during pushback anymore, it will be Swissport type third parties. More pain to come.
Paragraph377 is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2020, 14:26
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 106
It was one of the stupidest industrial campaigns of modern times that has led to the loss of thousands of jobs.

Its very unfortunate for the many individuals who are losing their jobs.
CamelSquadron is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2020, 18:32
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by CamelSquadron View Post
It was one of the stupidest industrial campaigns of modern times that has led to the loss of thousands of jobs.

Its very unfortunate for the many individuals who are losing their jobs.
We will see what the customers think about luggage not turning up after paying a premium to fly on the spirit of australia.
blubak is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2020, 22:19
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: MCY
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by CamelSquadron View Post
It was one of the stupidest industrial campaigns of modern times that has led to the loss of thousands of jobs.

Its very unfortunate for the many individuals who are losing their jobs.
many will get jobs with contractors, but at much lower pay.

$100m saving a year is massive for 2,000 former employees. If same numbers that $50,000 saving per person, but suspect contractors will use less people to do same job.
getaway is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2020, 00:23
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,738
Originally Posted by blubak View Post
We will see what the customers think about luggage not turning up after paying a premium to fly on the spirit of australia.
Weíll see how brainwashed the Union is if they think Fair Work is going to allow that kind of industrial action at such a critical time in the current economic climate.
dr dre is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2020, 06:12
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 825
A dedicated service provider such as Swissport can be more viable and flexible as it can obtain better utilisation and therefore productivity from its workforce. Their bag chuckers can go from one customerís aircraft to another and then to another with little or no gaps. This is how costs are held down - you donít requires as many people. On the other hand, if the same people worked for one carrier, they may well be idle for sometime between tasks, depending in that carrier's schedules.

The gravy train has stopped for the TWU. And not before time!
Ken Borough is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2020, 06:22
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 736
Thatís exactly what Swissport do at many ports QLink service now.

same crew service several QF group aircraft and Alliance all at the same time at MKY.

QF was never going to beat that flexibility.
Going Nowhere is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2020, 06:22
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
A dedicated service provider such as Swissport can be more viable and flexible as it can obtain better utilisation and therefore productivity from its workforce. Their bag chuckers can go from one customerís aircraft to another and then to another with little or no gaps. This is how costs are held down - you donít requires as many people. On the other hand, if the same people worked for one carrier, they may well be idle for sometime between tasks, depending in that carrier's schedules.

The gravy train has stopped for the TWU. And not before time!
Dedicated service provider! Are u serious??
They dont even have their own chocks so how dedicated is that.
Not long ago they were the company highlighted that had their employees working split shifts & sleeping in locker room aisle ways.
A casualised work force is just what the fed govt want,look at the security industry & how they find employees.
What about the casualised aged care sector,oh yeh thats right,lets forget about employees rights,you really need a reality check but im sure u are ok jack.
blubak is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2020, 06:27
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Weíll see how brainwashed the Union is if they think Fair Work is going to allow that kind of industrial action at such a critical time in the current economic climate.
Its not industrial action,nothing to do with it.
Its the contracted company now doing the job of long serving airline employees with a lot less staff employed at lower pay levels & not really caring whose bag gets on the right aircraft or not.
& why would they,casual wages,no guarantee of hours or wages each week.
blubak is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2020, 06:45
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 825
blublak,

If you have one, perhaps you should consult your dictionary for the meaning of 'dedicated'.
Ken Borough is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2020, 07:04
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: melbourne
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
A dedicated service provider such as Swissport can be more viable and flexible as it can obtain better utilisation and therefore productivity from its workforce. Their bag chuckers can go from one customerís aircraft to another and then to another with little or no gaps. This is how costs are held down - you donít requires as many people. On the other hand, if the same people worked for one carrier, they may well be idle for sometime between tasks, depending in that carrier's schedules.

The gravy train has stopped for the TWU. And not before time!
what a narcissistic comment.
in the 80,S and 90,S Qantas handled just about every international operator through Sydney.they kept costs down by having multiple contracts.
Management decided to terminate contracts and this has the flow on effect of higher overheads.
I wish all staff effected by this decision the very best outcome.
griffin one is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2020, 08:27
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 825
No, my comments aren't narcissistic.

Here a a couple of reasons why QF lost its ground handling contracts:
1. QF had outpriced the market as the third party providers were seriously competitive and able to offer lower rates because of their efficiency gains..
2. The TWU was always at war with QF, often on strike and also sought their brothers to support them. If they weren't on strike, they often applied bans of some kind. As a result, QF became an unreliable service provider.

The TWU is now enjoying its just desserts. While it's impossible to have sympathy for the union as a body corporate, the same doesn't generally apply to its rank and file who were, or are, led along by the nose.
Ken Borough is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 05:49
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 472
Well, the TWU won the case against Qantas. So what next? Will anything be changed?
Both parties have to sit down and discuss where to go from here, but I don’t think it will be a reversal of terminations, re-employment, compensation or any other reversionary action. So, it will be interesting as Qantas will be very angry that they have not shown that they were right to act the way they did.
Breaching the Fair Work Australia Act carries penalties.

Last edited by AEROMEDIC; 30th Jul 2021 at 06:08. Reason: More comment added.
AEROMEDIC is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 06:31
  #34 (permalink)  
ebt
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by AEROMEDIC View Post
Well, the TWU won the case against Qantas. So what next? Will anything be changed?
Both parties have to sit down and discuss where to go from here, but I donít think it will be a reversal of terminations, re-employment, compensation or any other reversionary action. So, it will be interesting as Qantas will be very angry that they have not shown that they were right to act the way they did.
Breaching the Fair Work Australia Act carries penalties.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for negotiations to start. Qantas will appeal this one all the way up to the Full Bench of the High Court if they have to, as this is their one shot to get out of the groundhanding business altogether. This decision doesn't appear to be a full victory for the TWU, so it is likely that Qantas will grourp and mount some better arguments about how dire the industry is and why the airline can justify outsourcing it, or at least find a way to get around the technicalities raised in this judgement. They will argue that it has wider ramifications on how a business can respond during an unprecedented crisis. Given the lockdowns continue to throw schedules and ops into a state of flux, it is helping to make the case for why it is better to pay a contractor than it is having lots of employees hanging around.
ebt is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 06:44
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 472
The decision was that Qantas breached the Fair Work Australia Act. I’m of the opinion that further arguments in a higher court does not change that. Why they did might be the argument, but you’d think that would have been put forward and justification with it, but after the decision was made, the weight of the argument seems lost.
AEROMEDIC is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 08:08
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by AEROMEDIC View Post
The decision was that Qantas breached the Fair Work Australia Act. Iím of the opinion that further arguments in a higher court does not change that. Why they did might be the argument, but youíd think that would have been put forward and justification with it, but after the decision was made, the weight of the argument seems lost.
They are 'right fighters' & always have been,keep spending money on high flying legal eagles just to prove its their way or no way.
The umpire is their friend when the decision suits them but when it doesnt of course everyone is wrong except them,doesnt matter whether its employees,customers,government or in fact anyone who dares to challenge them.
blubak is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 08:45
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 106
Pointless outcome.

Workers have been laid off, redundancy payments have been made, redundancy tax concessions claimed and everyone has moved on in their lives except for those few involved in the case. Qantas will appeal and keep this in the courts for even longer and the only real winners are the lawyers getting paid the big bucks to fight this.


CamelSquadron is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 10:39
  #38 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: MEL
Posts: 185
Qantas has already said that IF it loses its appeal and IF those workers get their jobs back, they will of course have to pay back their redundancy payouts. Very clever for QF to put this on the table because I reckon every former baggage handler and rampie has spent their redundancy payout on something like giving the money to the kids to help them with housing, paying off the remains of their own mortgage, maybe buying a holiday home or something else. None of them will be in a position to pay back their redundancy or even be willing to pay it back if they can somehow land their hands on the capital. Qantas will win this one way or another.
MelbourneFlyer is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2021, 12:18
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 252
But if they were illegally terminated, then shouldn’t they be back paid……..the equivalent of the redundancy, probably more by now so perhaps QF actually owes money………..
No Idea Either is online now  
Old 31st Jul 2021, 01:40
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 395
If they were found to have breached the FWA then a penalty will apply and that will go to the individual.
I donít know what the amount is nowadays but itís nothing to sneeze at.
Wingspar is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.