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Qatar disgrace

Old 26th Oct 2020, 05:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I have a question. Why has it taken so long for Australians to be repatriated on an Australian flagged carrier?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-...-soil/12805876

All of this unpleasantness (I'm not trying to gloss over what happened in Qatar which is plainly assault) could have been avoided.

Given what was known at the beginning of the year about when air travel would resume normal operations, someone could have had a plan for immediately beginning the repatriation of 30,000 people back in May.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 05:11
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Well... I find it interesting that the media are worked up about the treatment of the pax but not the underlying reason for it. As disgusting as BOTH of the issues are, that is how things go in that part of the world. We should all do our bit to have nothing to do with them.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 05:17
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Square Bear.
Very easily. If you don't use it you lose it.
Keeping Qantas operating with limited International should have been part of our repatriation plan. If Qantas didn't want to do that then the Govt could have given those rights to someone else.

Without a repatriation plan our Government is ultimately complicit when things go wrong. Any responsible Govt would have known that you cant strand 30,000 Australians overseas and not expect some repercussions.

As far as the Commonwealth lack of State control, that is obviously a Constitutional matter. Immigration and Aviation is definitely a Federal matter and Qantas can and should lose all unused rights under the IASC rules. If they want them back they can reapply when they think that they can use them.

Qantas likes to claim that they are the National Carrier but when we need a National Carrier they seem have taken their bat and ball and gone home.

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Old 26th Oct 2020, 05:31
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Why is anyone surprised? The whole region is well known for their poor treatment of women. You hear stories all the time, expat's wives slapped for daring to drive alone.... by a policeman, after being in an accident where they were not at fault.

They'll close two eyes as long as the money is rolling in. But their Islamic laws still apply, and they will enforce it whenever. I'm surprised gay businessmen are even visiting the region let alone working closely with their top airline.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 05:43
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Why wasn't this newsworthy when it happened, on Oct 2?

Did they ever locate the parent?

Had over 3 weeks to investigate by now.

So many questions...
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 05:47
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Spare a thought that the likely intent of the Qataris was to arrest who ever they had thought had given birth, especially if the mother was not married.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 06:35
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wunwing View Post
Qantas likes to claim that they are the National Carrier but when we need a National Carrier they seem have taken their bat and ball and gone home.
What this whole saga has shown is that if Australia wants a national carrier, then it should be nationalised (or at least receive significant government support for times like this).

Why do you think Qatar is flying everywhere at the moment? They don’t have to be profitable to go flying.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 07:23
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I agree we should look at an official National carrier.

. The USA handles this by enrolling airlines that suit Govt possible needs in the CRAF scheme. They get 1st bite at Govt charters and some funding on the condition that if the Govt needs them they have to serve the Govt first.

Currawong.
Perhaps the reason that this has only come out now is that the women involved have been in quarantine?? If this had been an event in Australia it would be defined as either rape or sexual assault. Possibly it wasn't until they could speak to family and friends that they decided to mention it publically or even if was those families and friends who spoke publically

Wunwing
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 08:54
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Spare a thought that the likely intent of the Qataris was to arrest who ever they had thought had given birth, especially if the mother was not married.
True,
And many are assuming the very unfortunate victims were all white anglo-saxon protestants who would all feel comfortable raising in (their cultural) public the fact they'd received this disgraceful treatment to say nothing of the trauma and stigma often sadly associated with such an assault.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 09:13
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
But they weren't. They were traveling on an airline that heavily markets itself in the west, flying between two western countries using that airlines base as a hub.

They certainly didn't sign up for what amounts to rape.
It’s a government owned airline from a backward country where this is totally acceptable.

If you go to these parts of the world or fly on airlines that consider this acceptable then you have to accept this.

The real odd thing is that the country and airline have basically said “yes, this is acceptable, we would do it again”

and their aircraft are still full of passengers, though now maybe crossing their fingers it doesn’t happen to them.

But, those, passengers do accept it might happen to them, it’s been proved it could.


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Old 26th Oct 2020, 09:20
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer View Post
No you don't. I think the word you are looking for is 'tolerate'.
No, the word I was using was accept.

You do have to accept it might happen to you, as that is their culture and what they consider normal.

If you jump into a cesspit you have to first accept that you might come out with stuff up your nose.

You might not, it might not go up your nose, but if it does. You cannot complain.

The weird thing is, that there are people queuing to jump into the cesspit, with their fingers crossed it won’t be them.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 09:30
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by currawong View Post
Why wasn't this newsworthy when it happened, on Oct 2?

Did they ever locate the parent?

Had over 3 weeks to investigate by now.

So many questions...
You think that what happened to the parent could make the news?!

If reading about the invasive but non harmful assaults offends you, you won’t want to read about what happened to the mother.

Imagine being so scared of what would happen to you that you’d leave your newly born child in a sink.

Can you imagine that level of fear.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 09:45
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Ban this airline from coming to australia. There should be zero tolerance for this kind of thing & absolutely no second chances, ever. C'mon australia grow some balls.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 11:03
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Busbitch View Post
Ban this airline from coming to australia. There should be zero tolerance for this kind of thing & absolutely no second chances, ever. C'mon australia grow some balls.
You would like to think so, but ScoMo can't even get our premier's to open their state borders, what are the chances he'll have the balls, yet alone the integrity to do something like that? You've got a better chance of winning lotto...
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 12:26
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Lots of Qatari- (and indirectly Arab-)bashing here but (as a few others have hinted) there is an alternative view.

Abandoning a child is a criminal offence in most (if not all) Western countries as well as (I presume) Qatar. Doing so in circumstances where the child was left unsafe - as seems to be the case here - or might not have been found for some time (as could easily happen if the toilets were in a gate area, and the next flight wasn't for quite some hours) could easily have led to the child's death and hence the potential crime of manslaughter (or local equivalent).

Given that the local authorities were investigating a potentially serious offence, do we believe that their means of doing so were disproportionate? Australia appears to be making this claim although not in a very structured or logically reasoned way - just making bold statements of outrage, filled with hyperbole but little objectivity. I wonder what Qatar makes of the Australian travel restrictions, keeping families (some of which will be Qatari) apart for months on end? I wonder if they find that to be proportionate?

I agree that we are missing some key facts here, in my mind the key ones being:
- was the child found alive or deceased?
- if alive, was it found (i) safe and (ii) such that it was likely to be found quickly, or could it have gone unnoticed for a prolonged period?
- to what form of examination were the passengers subjected? Was it carried out by a clinician? How were the relevant passengers selected? Were they invited to consent (and if so, under any form of duress e.g. lest they miss the flight?).

If anyone comes across more facts then please share! Also, the time lag between the event and its reporting it is indeed strange, does anyone know of the reasons?

In general, I would say let's get the evidence first, then form conclusions second. After all, as professional aviators isn't that what we are trained to do?

KP
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 12:31
  #36 (permalink)  
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Ban this airline from coming to australia.
Will not happen!

There should be zero tolerance for this kind of thing & absolutely no second chances, ever.
No argument but remember you are dealing with a Country that behaves as if it were Mediaeval times. They do not and will not accept Western (Infidel) values.

C'mon australia grow some balls.
Asking the impossible there!

ScoMo can't even get our premier's to open their state borders, what are the chances he'll have the balls, yet alone the integrity to do something like that?
A bit unfair on Scomo there IMHO. I suspect that if he knew that he could do something concrete about it he would, However, the realities of 'International Politics', which can cover a very wide scope, would render futile anything he tried to do. As for getting the Premiers to open their borders; What powers does the PM/Federal Govt actually possess which he could use to force them to do so?

Key pilot; Some very pertinent points.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 12:57
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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The airline should be banned from Australian airspace with immediate effect. Stand up for your people.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:00
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KeyPilot View Post
- was the child found alive or deceased?
While initially reported as a foetus, it has since been confirmed that the infant was (and hopefully still is) alive and in a reasonable condition (aside from being abandoned in an airport bathroom).

Theres only so many places you could leave a baby in a bathroom so one would think it was found fairly quickly.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:02
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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You would like to think so, but ScoMo can't even get our premier's to open their state borders, what are the chances he'll have the balls, yet alone the integrity to do something like that? You've got a better chance of winning lotto
You can't ban an airline for following the law in their own country. ScoMo has zero ability to do anything even if he wanted to. Once you play at a Sovereign State level there are no real rules to speak of.
Look at the Uyghur situation or the recognition of Taiwan. I'm sure the Australian government doesn't agree with any of it but what can they do about it? Ban China Southern?

The only option is for Australian citizens to never fly with an airline if they don't agree.

Last edited by neville_nobody; 26th Oct 2020 at 23:20.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:06
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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KeyPilot
Given that the local authorities were investigating a potentially serious offence, do we believe that their means of doing so were disproportionate?
Are you joking? Yes it was, it was disgraceful behaviour and disgusting response unfortunately not unexpected in that part of the world.
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