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ABC: Pilot Shortage ‘flipped around’

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ABC: Pilot Shortage ‘flipped around’

Old 27th Jul 2020, 21:53
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Originally Posted by f1yhigh View Post
Sorry for your situation. It's a catch 22, regret it if you hadn't done it, regret it because covid has impacted your way of living. I hope things work out for yourself.
I'm just riding the wave now. I was finally at a point where I've paid my training off so I guess I'll just see what the next 12 months bring!
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Old 27th Jul 2020, 23:34
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Let's just hope Australia's domestic market can do what China has. Most of China's airports are now reporting domestic passenger numbers and flights back at 2019 levels. Aircraft groundings in China are now below 10% of the fleet and much of that is 737max related.
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Old 27th Jul 2020, 23:57
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I have no doubt about the domestic market picking up but until people in Melbourne stop going to work when they are not feeling well then we will remain grounded for months.
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Old 28th Jul 2020, 00:35
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Originally Posted by Angle of Attack View Post
Finestkind, I, for one have gone against SOP’S multiple times in the interests of safety and my employment continued. I think your full of it and are either a failed upgrade or someone bitter with the system. Once in the air it is the Captains authority all the way, although I just noticed your location says SAUDI, well your in another world buddy, if that’s your world then sorry about that, it’s different everywhere else, the Captain rules the roost when airborne, unless your in Saudi obviously! 😂
“ I disagree with you opinion and wonder whether you have an axe to grind” would have been sufficient and mature in response than your above post.



Xeptu hit the nail on the head. There are less decisions to be made. Your fuel load , diversions etc. are all made for you (or am I wrong in memory about the complaints posted some time ago about a company dictating these). Given the ability to contact home base as opposed to years ago the Captain now has the company’s input with issues. Yes there are some companies that when you contact home base and tell them that the wings have fallen off will order you not to crash (middle east companies come to mind) but in an emergency the Captain goes down with the ship and therefore is the ruling authority. What I was stating was a Captain years ago was in charge of everything from what, who, went on board fuel loads diversion etc.

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Old 28th Jul 2020, 01:40
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There are less decisions to be made. Your fuel load , diversions etc. are all made for you
Really? What airline in the world can order a captain how much fuel to take or which airport to divert to??
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Old 28th Jul 2020, 02:22
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Once in the air it is the Captains authority all the way,
99% of the time is doing what the manufacturer, CASA or your company says in their manuals.
I get to decide fuel load, final level, which leg to fly and which meal to eat. The rest is laid down. I have proved this to myself many times.
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Old 28th Jul 2020, 03:53
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Neville pleased to hear this. The fragrant harbour thread, years ago, did have some concerns expressed on the company dictating these things.



Icarus is that not a contradiction, slight as it may seem and appears to support my point. “99 % of the time, the manufacturer, CASA, or company manuals” . Who writes the company manual’s?
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 04:33
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Thumbs up No Jobs And In Big Debt!

If I was a 20 something Pilot that had recently lost my job after spending massive amounts of money to gain that coveted airline job with no other life skills, then I would simply declare bankruptcy and return to school and get a trade certificate! You can rebuild your credit while getting a real job... rejoin the workforce even as an apprentice, make some money, and eventually get your ticket while the airline industry regroups. Then rejoin the airlines with money in your bank!
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 00:46
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nice attitude mccauley - life didn't work out how I wanted so i'll just pretend I don't have any responsibility to what I owe. There isn't any free lunches in life.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 01:37
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If I was a 20 something Pilot that had recently lost my job after spending massive amounts of money to gain that coveted airline job with no other life skills, then I would simply declare bankruptcy and return to school and get a trade certificate! You can rebuild your credit while getting a real job... rejoin the workforce even as an apprentice, make some money, and eventually get your ticket while the airline industry regroups. Then rejoin the airlines with money in your bank!
It doesn't work like that. They will garnish a percentage of your wages until you die. You then have to get clever with how you earn money and how you hold assets if you wish to avoid paying your debts.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 08:46
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
It doesn't work like that. They will garnish a percentage of your wages until you die. You then have to get clever with how you earn money and how you hold assets if you wish to avoid paying your debts.
No, they don’t. Bankruptcy cancels all debts and after three years the bankrupt is discharged with a clean slate. If you do it enough times you can be President of some third world countries.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 05:42
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
No, they don’t. Bankruptcy cancels all debts and after three years the bankrupt is discharged with a clean slate. If you do it enough times you can be President of some third world countries.
thread drift but bankruptcy does not cover hecs debt so the point is moot.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 05:55
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Child support isn't covered either.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 06:04
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Originally Posted by plotplot View Post
thread drift but bankruptcy does not cover hecs debt so the point is moot.
Guess it depends on whether someone ran up debt through Hecs or just a personal loan with a bank. Not that I advocate doing a cut and run with your responsibilities.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 07:33
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No, they don’t. Bankruptcy cancels all debts and after three years the bankrupt is discharged with a clean slate.
It all depends on what it is and who you owe money to and how much you earn post bankruptcy and what deal you cut. As stated above HECs amongst other things like tax and child support don't disappear.

https://www.afsa.gov.au/insolvency/c...hat-bankruptcy
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 18:45
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
I can’t say I regret becoming a pilot, I always loved flying but hated the Airline Industry. It’s a hard road when you consider what you have to do to stay in it.

.
It is so funny you say that because it is exactly how I feel. I have just been hired by a major cargo carrier and will never ever go back to airlines. Im in my mid 40's but people kept asking why I hated flying. They could not understand that a pilot can love being a pilot but hate the airline industry, mainly because of how it is run and the absolute muppets that are in charge, their greed and basic dislike for pilots.

I have a young daughter who keeps saying 'Daddy I want to be a pilot like you' now as a father I will support her 110% and help wherever I can but I hope when she is older she does something non aviation related. I know its tough when you are a youngster and you get the flying bug, its like an addiction but my advice now is if you are thinking about studying now just after high school or even early 20's still, get something uselful like a Law/Business management degree, medical degree, IT Programmer etc.....

You can always work for a few years and become a pilot in your late 20s and early 30s and have a brilliant airline career but if the pooh hits the fan you will be well positioned to go back to what you know with experience in the bank. Its the advice I would give my own daughter if she were 18 now. Airline flying is not for everyone and it certainly is not the be all and end all of aviation. Most of it is mundane, frustrating and quite irksome.

Fly King Air's for the RFDS or Dash 8 for the coastguard, will be much more fun flying without the idiotic and useless airline management to deal with. You could probably do that while still being a doctor or lawyer.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 19:17
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Yep

Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post

99% of the time is doing what the manufacturer, CASA or your company says in their manuals.
I get to decide fuel load, final level, which leg to fly and which meal to eat. The rest is laid down. I have proved this to myself many times.
pretty much hit the nail on the head.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 19:57
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Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic View Post
It is so funny you say that because it is exactly how I feel. I have just been hired by a major cargo carrier and will never ever go back to airlines. Im in my mid 40's but people kept asking why I hated flying. They could not understand that a pilot can love being a pilot but hate the airline industry, mainly because of how it is run and the absolute muppets that are in charge, their greed and basic dislike for pilots.

I have a young daughter who keeps saying 'Daddy I want to be a pilot like you' now as a father I will support her 110% and help wherever I can but I hope when she is older she does something non aviation related. I know its tough when you are a youngster and you get the flying bug, its like an addiction but my advice now is if you are thinking about studying now just after high school or even early 20's still, get something uselful like a Law/Business management degree, medical degree, IT Programmer etc.....

You can always work for a few years and become a pilot in your late 20s and early 30s and have a brilliant airline career but if the pooh hits the fan you will be well positioned to go back to what you know with experience in the bank. Its the advice I would give my own daughter if she were 18 now. Airline flying is not for everyone and it certainly is not the be all and end all of aviation. Most of it is mundane, frustrating and quite irksome.

Fly King Air's for the RFDS or Dash 8 for the coastguard, will be much more fun flying without the idiotic and useless airline management to deal with. You could probably do that while still being a doctor or lawyer.
True to some degree but, someone with an unrelated degree to flying (specialised) with no experience in the field will find it difficult to go back to that field if they lose their flying job.

I say be a doctor, lawyer etc and fly for fun on the side, or go all in day one being pilot for a career. You can always re-skill after the fact if the flying career doesn’t work out.

Aviation unfortunately is all about getting experience ahead of the guy next to you.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 20:35
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
True to some degree but, someone with an unrelated degree to flying (specialised) with no experience in the field will find it difficult to go back to that field if they lose their flying job.
This is something I’m hearing from a lot of stood down aviation workers at the moment. They have qualifications in a second field, but due to having not worked in that other industry for a number of years their qualifications aren’t recognised and are essentially meaningless, forcing them to be employable only in unskilled labour like traffic controller or checkout at Coles.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 21:06
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
True to some degree but, someone with an unrelated degree to flying (specialised) with no experience in the field will find it difficult to go back to that field if they lose their flying job.
Havick & dr dre,

I think you both nailed the problem. From the time I started flying in the mid 1960s the conventional wisdom has been get a degree in another field as a fall-back in case the aviation thing goes sour.

While I'd never argue against more education, I just think there are some practical problems with that advice if trying to apply it:

Does the field actually require more than an undergraduate degree to be successful ?

Did you have actual working experience in the field ? If so, how much...how long ago ?

[In my legacy salad days, I used to fly with captains who said that if they weren't making $XXX,XXX flying an airplane, they'd make that much doing something else because they had a degree in Fancy Engineering from Big Tech University. They never engineered anything and the last engineering problem they solved involved a slide rule]

Does the field require continuing education credits to remain a professional qualification ?

Do you have contacts in the field ? [networking is everything]

There are probably more issues with the conventional wisdom. It's a tough spot to be in. My feeble Plan B centered on the loss of medical certification. So, how to turn flying experience into non-flying aviation employment. I have no idea if my plan would've worked but am sure it wouldn't in the current mess.

It is possible to "retool" one's self but requires a herculean effort. For example, I looked into being an X-ray technician. Reasonable tuition cost, likely employment but two years of full time school...FULL...TIME. And if you want to run a CAT scan or MRI for higher pay, it requires experience and further schooling.

It can be done...just not by me.

Last edited by bafanguy; 3rd Aug 2020 at 21:20.
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