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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 21st Sep 2020, 13:05
  #1861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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I agree with BB and hope that AIPA are biding their time. For the life of me I cannot imagine QF thinking that LH pilots especially those on the 380 and 744 will accept being stood down for years. In that sense BB is right that all the ducks need to be lined up. For the time being the ALAEA action will be interesting. Itís also interesting, from the annual report, that QF consider it a possible eventuality.
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Old 21st Sep 2020, 23:33
  #1862 (permalink)  
 
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Wingspar

I agree with BB and hope that AIPA are biding their time.

I believe you maybe correct Wingspar .
I too believe AIPA maybe biding their time on this and a myriad of other issues until after the upcoming AIPA elections where certain “impediments” are likely to be “circumvented” allowing CoM under a new Executive to continue pursuing unanswered questions once again .
Something that hasn’t occurred with the last few iterations of the FUD elite !
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 01:23
  #1863 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by blow.n.gasket View Post
I believe you maybe correct Wingspar .
I too believe AIPA maybe biding their time on this and a myriad of other issues until after the upcoming AIPA elections where certain ďimpedimentsĒ are likely to be ďcircumventedĒ allowing CoM under a new Executive to continue pursuing unanswered questions once again .
Something that hasnít occurred with the last few iterations of the FUD elite !
So back to the days of an expensive litigious approach with poor outcomes?
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 02:37
  #1864 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post

If you want to run a case that pilots canít be stood down when there are no border restrictions in place (for example), then you need to wait until there are no border restrictions before you can run that case.
Even when the federal government allows some form of international entry into the country again, probably mid next year from current indications, that wonít be a catalyst for stand downs to end. Take a look at Europe:

Travelling in Europe: Which countries have border restrictions in place?

Even though the continent is more open than March/April every country has a myriad of different restrictions in place with regards to entry, quarantine, isolation, reasons for entry, health checks, documentation and ports of entry. It is very likely the Australian government will impose similar measures in differing standards against different countries. The US for instance will probably have more stringent measures than others for a few years more, and that was a big international market for Australia.

This is also notwithstanding other nationís restrictions on entry which may affect airline business, that could possibly also be altered at short notice. The borders wonít be back to December 2019 levels by mid next year, itíll be a few years more after that and justification for stand downs will be well entrenched. Thatís even assuming the border restrictions are the catalyst for stand downs which is what some are arguing here, not the pandemic and associated lack of international travel.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 03:02
  #1865 (permalink)  
 
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This isn't looking good 8 months in and international doesn't exist , domestic at maybe 5%

All the big babblers here screeching how quick domestic would bounce back & howling down the possibilities of CRs, vaccines next month

Big "that's all cr*p" proclamations but unable to articulate the why & how things are going to unfold

The ANZ boss the other day says he can't see Tasman opening until March 2021 at earliest , oh & by they believe half of Americans won't
take a vaccine in the event one is developed

Hard to see domestic borders opening this year, domestic starts in 2021, maybe 12 months from now domestic at 25 % , international 10 or 15 % (ie: Tasman & one of
Japan , Taiwan) . Feel free to map out your plan to open up QF international , which countries , when , what frequencies and how, detail how it is all going to work
I can't see QF returning to USA in 2021 & that was 40% of the international business

Corporates won't be travelling very much anymore in Australia, neither will public servants & no international visitors to truck around. Unfortunately domestic
is looking very very weak. Yes people want to have a holiday (Aussie not cool for under 30s locals to vacation in) but it is economic Chernobyl & a very high cost country)

Likely management know how bad it really is & that is why they are flea bagging in the relocate HQ ruse, they need the bucks

Think FF "business" will likely fall over , when oh when will punters wake up to that con , pay another 3% on CC get a whole lot of points that are unusable . Good one !

And they still say CRs won't happen , its all good as gold
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 03:06
  #1866 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
And they still say CRs won't happen , its all good as gold
Well by your own logic and predictions in your post they wonít. If itís established that border restrictions are catalysts for stand downs (not legally proven) and you say the borders will be closed for a long time yet then CR wonít happen as stand downs can be continued for that time.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 03:25
  #1867 (permalink)  
 
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Stand down isn't being driven by Border closures, It is being driven by the Jobkeeper amendment to the Fair work act. The government has stated that even when the employee subsidies expire in March 2021 businesses that still qualify for the Jobkeeper provisions may be able to continue with those provisions until their business conditions return. Meaning unfortunately for Airline and tourism staff that potentially stand down will continue until profitability returns, not borders reopening. Probably why the initial rush to push through QFLHEA variations has subsided as the company have breathing space to at least the end of March and probably beyond with the help of the Government.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 03:25
  #1868 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
This isn't looking good 8 months in and international doesn't exist , domestic at maybe 5%

All the big babblers here screeching how quick domestic would bounce back & howling down the possibilities of CRs, vaccines next month

Big "that's all cr*p" proclamations but unable to articulate the why & how things are going to unfold

The ANZ boss the other day says he can't see Tasman opening until March 2021 at earliest , oh & by they believe half of Americans won't
take a vaccine in the event one is developed

Hard to see domestic borders opening this year, domestic starts in 2021, maybe 12 months from now domestic at 25 % , international 10 or 15 % (ie: Tasman & one of
Japan , Taiwan) . Feel free to map out your plan to open up QF international , which countries , when , what frequencies and how, detail how it is all going to work
I can't see QF returning to USA in 2021 & that was 40% of the international business

Corporates won't be travelling very much anymore in Australia, neither will public servants & no international visitors to truck around. Unfortunately domestic
is looking very very weak. Yes people want to have a holiday (Aussie not cool for under 30s locals to vacation in) but it is economic Chernobyl & a very high cost country)

Likely management know how bad it really is & that is why they are flea bagging in the relocate HQ ruse, they need the bucks

Think FF "business" will likely fall over , when oh when will punters wake up to that con , pay another 3% on CC get a whole lot of points that are unusable . Good one !

And they still say CRs won't happen , its all good as gold

😂😂😂😂😂

Get a load of this rubbish. Thanks for the laugh
Domestic is already >20%
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 03:41
  #1869 (permalink)  
 
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Domestic > 20%...........

Really? I think that is a load of rubbish!

The amount of ornamental static displays parked around the country's major 'dromes would call BS on that!
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 03:41
  #1870 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OnceBitten View Post
Stand down isn't being driven by Border closures, It is being driven by the Jobkeeper amendment to the Fair work act. The government has stated that even when the employee subsidies expire in March 2021 businesses that still qualify for the Jobkeeper provisions may be able to continue with those provisions until their business conditions return. Meaning unfortunately for Airline and tourism staff that potentially stand down will continue until profitability returns, not borders reopening. Probably why the initial rush to push through QFLHEA variations has subsided as the company have breathing space to at least the end of March and probably beyond with the help of the Government.
For LH and SH pilots, they were stood down under provisions in the applicable Agreements. Stand down provisions existed in the Fair Work Act prior to the COVID amendments.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 04:14
  #1871 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by theheadmaster View Post
So back to the days of an expensive litigious approach with poor outcomes?
Whom would you be referring to , reference going down the expensive/ poor outcome litigious route Sir ?
Barry , Dave and Murray , who happen to be on the incoming Executive ticket ( if my sources are correct ) never struck me as such !
Do you mean that if AIPA actually has the gumption and audacity to actually challenge contractual interpretations through the appropriate Industrial channels , instead of just rolling over on everything demanded by Alan , then the pilots will be dragged through the courts by Qantas ?
Oh I understand where you’re coming from now !
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 04:21
  #1872 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by blow.n.gasket View Post
Whom would you be referring to , reference going down the expensive/ poor outcome litigious route Sir ?
Barry , Dave and Murray , who happen to be on the incoming Executive ticket ( if my sources are correct ) never struck me as such !
Do you mean that if AIPA actually has the gumption and audacity to actually challenge contractual interpretations through the appropriate Industrial channels , instead of just rolling over on everything demanded by Alan , then the pilots will be dragged through the courts by Qantas ?
Oh I understand where you’re coming from now !
Thanks, that answers my question. The 2011 lockout happened under their stewardship.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 04:23
  #1873 (permalink)  
 
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The lockout had what , exactly to do with the pilots and the Executive running AIPA at the time ?
Tell me , was it the red ties or was it the scripted PA’s that caused the lockout ?
God knows what Alan would have done if AIPA told the pilots to wear the issued red arm bands !
How exactly then , does that tie-in with your accusation of an expected round of expensive yet futile lawsuits ???
What , are they about to run out of Qantas office jobs over the road for retreaded AIPA executives thus through causality a new litigious era can be expected ?

Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 22nd Sep 2020 at 04:49.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 04:48
  #1874 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by theheadmaster View Post
For LH and SH pilots, they were stood down under provisions in the applicable Agreements. Stand down provisions existed in the Fair Work Act prior to the COVID amendments.
​​​​​Initially that was true. However once the variations to the Fair work act by jobkeeper came into effect we have been governed by a JobKeeper enabling stand down direction which have far more reaching powers for a Business than just the EA stand down provisions we work under in normal times.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 04:56
  #1875 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 View Post
😂😂😂😂😂

Get a load of this rubbish. Thanks for the laugh
Domestic is already >20%
Just put him on the ignore list, the guy is just an embarrassment who has zero idea.
Telfer86, go away, you are just a narcissist who is loving others's misfortune.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 05:06
  #1876 (permalink)  
Keg

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I was supportive of the AIPA COM at the time. I wore the tie, made the PAs and stood at the front door to wear the flack of those passengers who decided they wanted to have a shot.

The lockout of pilots had everything to do with the AIPA COM and executive of the time. It was them that set the strategy and it was their actions that tied the pilots to the ALAEA and TWU’s ‘slow bake’. We were industrially naive as to how the situation would progress and how Qantas would respond. That’s on the executive and the COM of the time as well. Hopefully those people are all much wiser now. Judging by the actions of a number of the COM members on ‘the ticket’ I’m not convinced that’s the case.

Last edited by Keg; 22nd Sep 2020 at 10:26.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 05:07
  #1877 (permalink)  
 
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Domestic at 20% ? Not sure what you are smoking WA , Vic , & Tas effectively closed , in/out of SA a couple of flights a day, NT effectively closed, yes maybe something
in Qld intra state. I think less than 4% , I am certainly not going to accept a figure because a senior manager at Aussie airline makes that claim. Would accept at face value
from ANZ , but for our boys I would need to see the raw data myself

Dr - suggesting that the change in quantum of domestic travel will be near enough to permanent. Large employers just aren't going to
allow their staff to travel for at least the next three years. The way people work in Aust has changed

Bitre data not out yet , June might have been 8% or so & we have gone down since then , most of the NBs getting around now
might have 20 or 30 pax

In terms of getting a large taxpayer cashy for moving HQ , QF look to their N & their S & they know they will never have this opportunity again they will
never have two greater wood ducks to milk. The Victorian will do it just for the publicity , get up shake his a$$e & start shrieking "look at me"

But the other flock of wood ducks that FF/loyalty preyed on will surely wake up now

Why can't QF have a CEO like the last few guys who have ran ANZ, home grown blokes , achieved success OS , laid back , casual no fuss ?

How's the plan to reopen International coming along ? Lots of babbling & big man talk - but no facts & no plan

I can't see how you open travel to USA, EU, SAfrica, SAmerica given the infection rates & issues you would having screening pax & issues you would have believing anything that local officials told you

Maybe Donald gets a bad rap the fatality rates in UK, Spain, France & Italy are similar too if not worse than USA unfortunately (just cursory glance UK looks
25% higher, wrong there Spain gets the gold , USA/Italy/UK call it dead heat, Frenchie get the bronze 20% off the pace)

Interesting how his highness emerges whenever I make a post - he is the main man after all

The Earl of PPRuNe ,he does wonderful talkies

Last edited by Telfer86; 22nd Sep 2020 at 06:18.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 05:22
  #1878 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
most of the NBs getting around now might have 20 or 30 pax
Hmm, you sure? Thats not what Fids says..
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 05:35
  #1879 (permalink)  
Keg

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This is worth a read for those who want to revisit some of what occurred back in 2011.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 08:30
  #1880 (permalink)  
 
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I think the 20% is inclusive of FIFO and Cargo?

Excluding that, I assume we are in single digits.
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