QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: East Coast
Posts: 6
Norm is back under a different handle I suspect. My remotely possibe pay cut Telfer is offset by the CR payout in my case, hence I made the decision I did. If your CR payout wouldn't offset the risks, then glad you made the decision you did. Just stop blaming everyone else. Is it a great choice for anyone? No. We all want what we had.
If at worst I have to come back on a lower pay scale, then so be it. Still beats what I am doing now. I am flogging myself just to put food on the table for my kids. Should I join you and spend my precious remaining free time on here apportioning blame for my predicament?
This whole scenario is a mess, nobody saw it coming.
The best lesson to learn is that life isn't fair. Adapt and survive.
If at worst I have to come back on a lower pay scale, then so be it. Still beats what I am doing now. I am flogging myself just to put food on the table for my kids. Should I join you and spend my precious remaining free time on here apportioning blame for my predicament?
This whole scenario is a mess, nobody saw it coming.
The best lesson to learn is that life isn't fair. Adapt and survive.
Join Date: May 2018
Location: The street
Posts: 54
The lower rates would only apply to SOs and it’s very unlikely that Telfer is correct. Qantas are running out of threats.
He’s a company mole or most likely some pilot hating HR tool. Always surprises me why people who hate pilots so much do such a job.
AIPA and it’s pilot’s have a signed and sealed EBA. One that was authorised by fair work DURING the pandemic at the insistence of Qantas as Telfer suggests. Look at the TWU ground staff or Jetstar pilots that don’t have an EBA locked in.
Telfer is annoyed that it is signed and sealed and can’t be f&$#@ed with unless pilots are stupid enough to open it up and get shafted.
It’s unlikely that pilots agree to a variation. I think a team of Qantas lawyers will look to take advantage of pilots if they are silly enough to
open an EBA. Ask any decent lawyer and they will tell you not to open up or vary an EA in this environment.
If pilots agree to a variation by opening the EBA and Qantas end up legally shafting everyone, then Telfer will be calling everyone an idiot for not seeing it coming.
On this Issue we will find ourselves in agreement. You can’t have it both ways champ.
He’s a company mole or most likely some pilot hating HR tool. Always surprises me why people who hate pilots so much do such a job.
AIPA and it’s pilot’s have a signed and sealed EBA. One that was authorised by fair work DURING the pandemic at the insistence of Qantas as Telfer suggests. Look at the TWU ground staff or Jetstar pilots that don’t have an EBA locked in.
Telfer is annoyed that it is signed and sealed and can’t be f&$#@ed with unless pilots are stupid enough to open it up and get shafted.
It’s unlikely that pilots agree to a variation. I think a team of Qantas lawyers will look to take advantage of pilots if they are silly enough to
open an EBA. Ask any decent lawyer and they will tell you not to open up or vary an EA in this environment.
If pilots agree to a variation by opening the EBA and Qantas end up legally shafting everyone, then Telfer will be calling everyone an idiot for not seeing it coming.
On this Issue we will find ourselves in agreement. You can’t have it both ways champ.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
Posts: 483
Don't worry Ducksnuts, I'm still here - just been busy working!
Is 260 on LWOP enough? I hope so, but according to the departed Tino it's not. No vaccine found in the next 6-12 months will probably result in Allan doing another 'fleet review'. That's when shit will hit the fan for redundancy's.
The VR/ER lawsuit appears to be a problem. If those pilots who can't let go of the golden goose turn out to be successful Qantas may just pull the pin on the entire operation. "We looked at VR as per the EBA requirements. Sorry it didn't work out, we are now commencing CR".
I remember Tino saying in a webinar that if Qantas got desperate they have a lot of commercial real estate and offices they can juggle. Yesterdays news from Venessa shows just how bad the situation is becoming. I'm sure Allan just wants a $200m slice of the pie from the QLD government.
Is 260 on LWOP enough? I hope so, but according to the departed Tino it's not. No vaccine found in the next 6-12 months will probably result in Allan doing another 'fleet review'. That's when shit will hit the fan for redundancy's.
The VR/ER lawsuit appears to be a problem. If those pilots who can't let go of the golden goose turn out to be successful Qantas may just pull the pin on the entire operation. "We looked at VR as per the EBA requirements. Sorry it didn't work out, we are now commencing CR".
I remember Tino saying in a webinar that if Qantas got desperate they have a lot of commercial real estate and offices they can juggle. Yesterdays news from Venessa shows just how bad the situation is becoming. I'm sure Allan just wants a $200m slice of the pie from the QLD government.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Syd, NSW
Posts: 359
The narrative is changing
Additionally, chatter indicating 180 day recency issues and promised “stand up” in turn being re-evaluated highlighted on Qrewroom.
There is also a good chance that several of the aircraft type, such as the A380s won’t have much (if any) place in the post-COVID Qantas line up. It would be unsurprising to see a larger number of international pilots made redundant before the airline resumes normal services.
And Joyce is no stranger to playing industrial relations hardball. He did so in order to get a 30 per cent productivity lift when introducing direct flights from Perth to London and again on the Sunrise project to fly direct from Sydney and Melbourne to London, Paris and New York.
And Joyce is no stranger to playing industrial relations hardball. He did so in order to get a 30 per cent productivity lift when introducing direct flights from Perth to London and again on the Sunrise project to fly direct from Sydney and Melbourne to London, Paris and New York.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
The narrative is changing
Additionally, chatter indicating 180 day recency issues and promised “stand up” in turn being re-evaluated highlighted on Qrewroom.
Additionally, chatter indicating 180 day recency issues and promised “stand up” in turn being re-evaluated highlighted on Qrewroom.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Syd, NSW
Posts: 359
No just a LH issue. Some in SH in MEL are looking at 180 day recency too. I take on board your comments however. My view is as the border shutdowns continue unabated and we continue to see 15-20% Domestic rather than 70% Flight Ops won’t have a say in the matter.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 642
Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
The narrative is changing
Additionally, chatter indicating 180 day recency issues and promised “stand up” in turn being re-evaluated highlighted on Qrewroom.
Additionally, chatter indicating 180 day recency issues and promised “stand up” in turn being re-evaluated highlighted on Qrewroom.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
Posts: 907
Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
No just a LH issue. Some in SH in MEL are looking at 180 day recency too. I take on board your comments however. My view is as the border shutdowns continue unabated and we continue to see 15-20% Domestic rather than 70% Flight Ops won’t have a say in the matter.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by normanton
Is 260 on LWOP enough?………..
…………..The VR/ER lawsuit appears to be a problem.
…………..The VR/ER lawsuit appears to be a problem.
A close colleague spoke with a manager in the last few days. It seems the hold-up in processing the VR is not with the older cohort's claim but with a particular group who applied for VR but can't be replaced in the short term.
With that in mind, maybe 260 taking LWOP is enough (for now) and VR will be withdrawn or allowed to lapse on Nov 7th, possibly to be reviewed at a later date. The CP did mention a number of times yesterday that retaining cash is the imperative whilst domestic borders remain closed.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by Wingspar
Even the 400 crew who realise that they’ve had their last flight can’t leave.
’Hotel California’ again!
’Hotel California’ again!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: centre of my universe
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by C441
Second quote first.
A close colleague spoke with a manager in the last few days. It seems the hold-up in processing the VR is not with the older cohort's claim but with a particular group who applied for VR but can't be replaced in the short term.
A close colleague spoke with a manager in the last few days. It seems the hold-up in processing the VR is not with the older cohort's claim but with a particular group who applied for VR but can't be replaced in the short term.
That doesn’t stack up. The Entire airline is in surplus.
Being a targeted program, the B744 applicants should have been out the door immediately.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 46
A cynic (what!, on PPRuNe?) might suggest that the company has followed the requirements of EA10 15.10.1:
Subject to this Agreement, the Company will manage all necessary pilot reductions in a manner aimed at minimising the need for compulsory redundancies by considering all reasonable alternatives, including natural attrition, LWOP, voluntary redeployment, voluntary secondment and voluntary redundancies.
They've considered VR, even sought EoIs, decided it's not for them, and will now move on to CRs………Let's hope not.
Personally, I'm not that cynical and suspect VRs will go ahead eventually but there is some (probably financial) advantage in lumping all 188 applicants together.
Subject to this Agreement, the Company will manage all necessary pilot reductions in a manner aimed at minimising the need for compulsory redundancies by considering all reasonable alternatives, including natural attrition, LWOP, voluntary redeployment, voluntary secondment and voluntary redundancies.
They've considered VR, even sought EoIs, decided it's not for them, and will now move on to CRs………Let's hope not.
Personally, I'm not that cynical and suspect VRs will go ahead eventually but there is some (probably financial) advantage in lumping all 188 applicants together.
Last edited by C441; 17th Sep 2020 at 07:35.
Nunc est bibendum
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,307
I too wondered about the timing and figured that they could have let go of the 747 crew who had EOI’d the VR about a week after the applications closed. For whatever reason they’ve decided to do them all together.
I still reckon they’ll accept most/ all of those who have EOI’d. Even those in categories they’re possibly worried about replacing in the short term are likely to still be accepted though the timing for their departure may vary from everyone else.
Having offered VR, I reckon they’d get absolutely nailed if they said ‘no’ some of it and then went down the road of CR instead.
I still reckon they’ll accept most/ all of those who have EOI’d. Even those in categories they’re possibly worried about replacing in the short term are likely to still be accepted though the timing for their departure may vary from everyone else.
Having offered VR, I reckon they’d get absolutely nailed if they said ‘no’ some of it and then went down the road of CR instead.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Prison Island (WA)
Posts: 1,343
Re: 180 day recency issues
Consider this quote from treasury.gov.au about the purpose of JobKeeper:
Has Qantas been using JobKeeper for its intended purpose, or have they been pocketing the cash to help prop up the bottom line? Should the money have been used instead to keep everyone current?
Consider this quote from treasury.gov.au about the purpose of JobKeeper:
The JobKeeper Payment will support employers to maintain their connection to their employees.
These connections will enable business to reactivate their operations quickly — without having to rehire staff — when the crisis is over.
These connections will enable business to reactivate their operations quickly — without having to rehire staff — when the crisis is over.
