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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 1st Sep 2020, 05:17
  #1721 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I feel as if AIPA said they still get to vote.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 05:45
  #1722 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
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DA said yesterday, If their LWOP period expires during the validity period of EBA10, then they vote. If their LWOP period extends past EBA10, they don't.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 07:08
  #1723 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by angryrat View Post
The answer is no because they aren’t considered employed by QF at that time.
The answer is YES

Whilst on LWOP you are still covered by EA10 and therefore vote on any changes. Your understanding is 100% INCORRECT, you are still employed during your LWOP period.

Last edited by Fujiroll76; 1st Sep 2020 at 07:09. Reason: addition
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 08:12
  #1724 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Sure about that? Not what I’m reading from the sources I’ve looked at.

It looks like the first indications of the drawback of capacity was the 9th of March, then more substantial stand downs were announced late evening in the media on the 18th of March, and in press release early the next morning. The government didn’t announce the international border closure until the afternoon of the 19th. It was close but stand downs happened before the closure. Up until that point the federal government was just “discouraging” international travel.
Not sure about other departments but Longhaul Pilots were stood down effective 30th March - due to border closure being “outside of their control” and further to that having “no effective work” for us to do.

The trigger event was the border closure.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 08:45
  #1725 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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I was on LWOP for 5 years and was eligible to vote during that time.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 12:07
  #1726 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 52
Does anyone who if any B787 have actually gone to to desert yet?
if not why not?
It’s nearly been a month

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Old 1st Sep 2020, 12:32
  #1727 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
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There seems to have been a blanket of silence since the departure of TLS.
Wonder if the deck is now being re-shuffled.
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 05:51
  #1728 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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ZNA positioning Bne-Syd today.....
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 11:05
  #1729 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 52
Is that a tech stop on the way to the USA?
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 12:28
  #1730 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Come in spinner View Post
Is that a tech stop on the way to the USA?
Had to fly to Sydney first to ensure a full complement of management pilots could then operate the US sector
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 20:08
  #1731 (permalink)  
 
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Didn’t Management say it would be a “ Longest Since “ decision process for the noble ferry cause ?
Surely all the seagulls have more pressing issues to attend to, than a States jolly followed by a forced quarantine induced Netflix binge upon return ?
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 02:55
  #1732 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by blow.n.gasket View Post
Didn’t Management say it would be a “ Longest Since “ decision process for the noble ferry cause ?
Surely all the seagulls have more pressing issues to attend to, than a States jolly followed by a forced quarantine induced Netflix binge upon return ?
Really who cares. Makes sense to use anyone that is still current rather than put someone through the sim etc just to do one sector. I say let management do it. They are on the payroll and probably current so good luck to them.

If it was offered to me I would turn it down. Couldn’t be bothered getting current and then the quarantine implications.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 04:38
  #1733 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KZ Kiwi View Post
Really who cares. Makes sense to use anyone that is still current rather than put someone through the sim etc just to do one sector. I say let management do it. They are on the payroll and probably current so good luck to them.

If it was offered to me I would turn it down. Couldn’t be bothered getting current and then the quarantine implications.
Valid point, except the 4-6 weeks pay (paid for Quarantine remember), equates to about 4-6 months pay for the minimum wage casual jobs outside of aviation that many of us currently find ourselves doing.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 05:18
  #1734 (permalink)  
 
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Derfred

Apologies to all for mentioning the war again (ie: what year increment does a CR return on)

Thanks for the tips from previous week & the well intentioned effort etc

My view was that EBA10 is a plain english document & that as nothing is mentioned re: CR & what year service level
you return on , that you would return on year 1 & then B scale SO if A350 is ordered. So unless QF have stated in writing something different
ie: that your years of service will be credited in a similar way to medical terminations , then nothing to discuss

Maybe there is some case law that gives credence to a different argument & that's all very interesting for QC's go to Federal courts , frock up & jump around. Not sure how that will assist guys who get re-employed after CR , who get told take it or leave it mate. Thought the efforts of AIPA should be focused on securing a better deal for CR & also LWOP , VR also instead of getting heads on the telly re: the pilotkeeper concept. Very surprising AIPA didn't try to lock QF in to better deals in the event of CR (ie: priority for "group jobs", years of service credited, no B scale) ; must have just slipped their mind

People have made their choices my view was that accrual of annual leave & lsl & yearly service increments over 3 years on stand down as an upside
wasn't worth the risk of CR & coming back years from now on year 1/B scale. If somebody rolls the dice & wins well all power to you , that's great
just not the kind of bet I would take

I know guys keep repeating "there is no surplus"(to me it just sounds like the virgin guys who kept repeating "we have 1/1.4 billion cash) , I see all the parked aircraft so I don't subscribe to that viewpoint & I note AJ talked about AC & ANZ reducing fleet size by 50% & 30% respectively on four corners. Still think a pretty good chance of CR unfortunately, QF have followed
the process outlined to the letter up to this point, firstly offer VR & lwop & early retirement, then you can move to CR

Does anyone think another VR would be offered prior to any CR ?

I don't think many would have predicted Australia segmenting as it has, I don't think any significant domestic this year (hope I am wrong)

Last edited by Telfer86; 3rd Sep 2020 at 06:17.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 06:22
  #1735 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
Derfred

Apologies to all for mentioning the war again (ie: what year increment does a CR return on)

Thanks for the tips from previous week & the well intentioned effort etc

My view was that EBA10 is a plain english document & that as nothing is mentioned re: CR & what year service level
you return on , that you would return on year 1 & then B scale SO if A350 is ordered. So unless QF have stated in writing something different
ie: that your years of service will be credited in a similar way to medical terminations , then nothing to discuss

Maybe there is some case law that gives credence to a different argument & that's all very interesting for QC's go to Federal courts , frock up & jump around. Not sure how that will assist guys who get re-employed after CR , who get told take it or leave it mate. Thought the efforts of AIPA should be focused on securing a better deal for CR & also LWOP , VR also instead of getting heads on the telly re: the pilotkeeper concept. Very surprising AIPA didn't try to lock QF in to better deals in the event of CR (ie: priority for "group jobs", years of service credited, no B scale) ; must have just slipped their mind

People have made their choices my view was that accrual of annual leave & lsl & yearly service increments over 3 years on stand down as an upside
wasn't worth the risk of CR & coming back years from now on year 1/B scale. If somebody rolls the dice & wins well all power to you , that's great
just not the kind of bet I would take

I know guys keep repeating "there is no surplus" , I see all the parked aircraft so I don't subscribe to that viewpoint & I note AJ talked about
AC & ANZ reducing fleet size by 50% & 30% respectively on four corners. Still think a pretty good chance of CR unfortunately, QF have followed
the process outlined to the letter up to this point, firstly offer VR & lwop & early retirement, then you can move to CR

Does anyone think another VR would be offered prior to any CR ?

I don't think many would have predicted Australia segmenting as it has, I don't think any significant domestic this year (hope I am wrong)
You should probably read the EBA mate.

Qantas identified the numbers. Which is well publicised. The VR & ER package dealt with that longer term surplus.

The LWOP & bypass conditions deal with the short term surplus Qantas have now. As TLS put it - ‘variabilisation’ of the costs. 5% costs for 5% flying as we scale up.

If Qantas announce that more aircraft will be retired, another number of surplus positions will be announced. VR packages will be offered + LWOP and then if that fails to address the numbers, CR will commence.

There is presently no identified surplus and the previous one has been dealt with.

So stop trying to scare people. The rest of us are realists. If our number comes up and we end up on the retrenchment list. Such is life sometimes.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 06:51
  #1736 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Well that might be your view that there is no surplus , I don't accept that & think surplus is around 500

& that is based on the fact that the WB are all parked & don't look like flying anytime soon. I don't accept it is
a "short term" surplus. & NB going at most 10% of normal

Not really interested what ex-employees did or didn't say . QF management have pretty much called everything wrong to date,
it's been guesswork , they(like everyone else) just don't know

No problems you expressing your view , but you are just speaking for yourself , so you should drop the royal "We"

Have read the eba many times , still reckon any CRs come back on year 1 or B scale. Not sure so many will be as nonchalant as
you & Ned Kelly if they come back on half current pay , all for the sake of continuing to accrue leave. But that is your right to have that perspective

Nice day

Last edited by Telfer86; 3rd Sep 2020 at 07:01.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 07:42
  #1737 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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For what it’s worth Telfer, when you first raised the CR return issue, in my mind I agreed with you. When you are CRd you leave the company. So when you return it’s at the bottom in what ever capacity the company chooses. I haven’t read anything that changes my mind. So yes, if an A380 SO was CRd, they could face a significant salary drop.....In theory. I do agree with you.

However, for many reasons covered previously by many, this situation is highly improbable....seniority, cost of CR, other VR options to name a few. There are more likely outcomes to chew over than that.

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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 11:59
  #1738 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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They (GMC) have relayed as late as today that they will need the crews into the future and that is why no more ‘redundant’ positions have been identified to date.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 12:23
  #1739 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by crosscutter View Post
So yes, if an A380 SO was CRd, they could face a significant salary drop.....In theory. I do agree with you.
Doesn't an existing SO who transfers to the 787 (and I assume 350 too) only keep their existing conditions for 18 months before going onto the new T&Cs?
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 22:20
  #1740 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting concept Dr , would have thought when you go on to the 787 you would get year 1 787 rates, as the years are "on category" aren't they , not years
of service for rest of fleet. The 350 rates look pretty healthy , that is for crew on the books now - if you get CR & get re-hired your hourly max as an SO is $115

No got that wrong there is pay protection for SOs going to the 787 , AIPA just forgot about pay protection for Pilots who get made redundant & come back on year 1 level & also B scale (if A350 ordered). But take huge win pay protection for 18 months if you transfer to 787 -that's the big picture stuff

Interesting comment above re: likely no CRs , - to expensive. The "back of coaster" calc I did , the CR is a no- brainer if QF want to preserve cash

The break even for CR vs stand down is at max 24 months (& you could argue even one year for A330 guys). The reason ,significant pay increments in early years as SO (at least on the A330), that alone(without even considering leave accruals) would pay for a CR for an A330 SO . The multiplier effect of getting a couple of years of service pay increments as a SO is very significant , especially for the A330 increasing approx 30% in first two years

Clearly a lot of guys here just foxing along , claiming you don't return on a B scale or year 1 after CR , "it's all in the eba" - sure it is , and a decree has been issued
stating there will be no CR - sure thing. Clearly the motivation is(or was) to keep as many people below them to absorb any CR

Ironic how AIPA didn't get current crew quarantined from the B scale

lwop/CRs ,even VRs might have been avoided or very much minimised if different strategy had been adopted , pay cut of "X" for certain number of years. AIPA
should have pushed this along , has worked so far at a number of other airlines, project pilotkeeper waste of time & energy

Incredible to hear guys state here , that is not something they would contemplate

Last edited by Telfer86; 3rd Sep 2020 at 22:53.
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