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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 10th Jul 2020, 13:42
  #621 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Angle of Attack View Post
No problem swap your 12 months VR with a 14 month Flight attendant payout. It’s not about weeks or months, it’s about the payout, and it’s entirely up to the Company what they offer, anyone saying anything else is full of it. Take it or leave it, it’s pretty bloody simple.
In 2014 the Union thought the Company’s offer was far less than what was needed to entice enough pilots to take it. They were wrong. And that was when there was an option to keep flying and earning a wage for those targeted for VR. Now there’s stand downs:

polling had found Qantas needed to offer a base salary figure of closer to 24 months - with 18 months as a minimum - to address its concerns of having surplus pilots.
Pilots not happy with Qantas redundancy offer
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Old 10th Jul 2020, 13:54
  #622 (permalink)  
 
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They will have no trouble getting enough takers. I predict it will be oversubscribed. As dr Dre says, they had enough when there was flying to be done.

Once those eligible make peace with the fact that it’s not a reflection of what QF think you are worth, and simply a number QF think you will take, they will reflect on the alternative, and take what’s on offer. It’s a no brainer.
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Old 10th Jul 2020, 14:29
  #623 (permalink)  
Keg

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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
In 2014 the Union thought the Company’s offer was far less than what was needed to entice enough pilots to take it. They were wrong. And that was when there was an option to keep flying and earning a wage for those targeted for VR. Now there’s stand downs:



Pilots not happy with Qantas redundancy offer
AIPA was correct on that one. They reckoned it needed to be higher to get 100 applicants for VR. Qantas only received about 52 applications for that one. They still seemed happy with the outcome though. I suspect they’ll be happy with this one too whether the number is 100 or 200.

Those over 63.5 will get an offer soon I suspect. An ‘early retirement’ is taxed slightly differently to VR but still better than marginal tax rates- the ATO guidance on this is appalling! Even if the offer was for the leave they accrue between now and 65 and bundled in with their accrued leave (if they have any) they’re still likely to be better off than remaining on stand down between now and 65th birthday.
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 01:51
  #624 (permalink)  
 
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So, if you take the 12 month LWOP to avoid being made redundant, what happens if after the 12 months you come back, intl is still dead in the water, and the company a month later makes you redundant “due to new review on impact of the virus” or whatever.. How long does the ‘amnesty’ on redundancy for those who take the LWOP option legally last? Anything other than a legal clarification surely wouldn’t be acceptable to opt into it?
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 02:00
  #625 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TimmyTee View Post
So, if you take the 12 month LWOP to avoid being made redundant, what happens if after the 12 months you come back, intl is still dead in the water, and the company a month later makes you redundant “due to new review on impact of the virus” or whatever.. How long does the ‘amnesty’ on redundancy for those who take the LWOP option legally last? Anything other than a legal clarification surely wouldn’t be acceptable to opt into it?
Then you get made redundant when you come back from LWOP.

I hope the company is prepared for the onslaught of LWOP applications they are about to receive!
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 02:14
  #626 (permalink)  
 
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What is the benefit of taking LWOP? Why not just stay stood down and accrue leave and get JK?

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Old 11th Jul 2020, 02:31
  #627 (permalink)  
 
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For the “super junior” in either LH or SH, taking LWOP will protect you from being made redundant. i think the way they have set this up is smart (from the company’s side). They will surely get hundreds of the senior guys to take VR, while at the same time, scaring juniour blokes into taking LWOP to try and not be made compulsorily redundant.
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 02:31
  #628 (permalink)  
 
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JK will not last forever KZK. If it’s extended, probably only another 3-6 months. After that standown is standown, ie, no useful work no pay. Bit different here than ENZED I believe. You could be stood-down for three years with no pay, but you will retain your spot in the list and accrue benefits such as annual, long service and personal leave. Still have the curly one of exactly how long can you be stood down.........3 months, 6 months......3 years!!!!! Surely someone would challenge it if it just goes on and on.

Genuine question people........how does the amnesty clause fit in with your EA??
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 02:54
  #629 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SandyPalms View Post
For the “super junior” in either LH or SH, taking LWOP will protect you from being made redundant. i think the way they have set this up is smart (from the company’s side). They will surely get hundreds of the senior guys to take VR, while at the same time, scaring juniour blokes into taking LWOP to try and not be made compulsorily redundant.
why would a junior SH pilot be made redundant? QF have stated there is no forecast surplus in SH....what am I missing?
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:00
  #630 (permalink)  
 
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Don't know surfer dude. I think the jury is still out on what happens in seniority when we get to a CR. Not tying to be alarmist, but have they said that they will not use the seniority list for CR? What does a "forecast surplus" mean with regard to CR?
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:05
  #631 (permalink)  
 
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Ah ok. In a webinair it was touched on, but QF consider LH and SH completely separate for redundancy. The integration agreement just says ‘new hire’ pilots go first in accordance with the Pilots Agreement (ie where the surplus is). I haven’t read the A/Q stuff in great detail but I believe the ‘Y’ starts somewhere around seniority 600....if it gets that far I’d say it’s game over anyway! Of course, I’d expect this to be challenged.

hopefully we never have to find out.
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:08
  #632 (permalink)  
 
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You have less than 4 weeks to be on LWOP to avoid inclusion in a potential CR:
The win for the company is you no longer accrue leave. I’m still unsure if you can get jobkeeper when on LWOP.

Good luck out there...
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:08
  #633 (permalink)  
 
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Are you guys (and girls) saying that:

If you are on LWOP, you can not be made redundant?


Upon your return you might be made redundant.... but then you’d just extend your LWOP wouldn’t you?
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:13
  #634 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ROH111 View Post
Upon your return you might be made redundant.... but then you’d just extend your LWOP wouldn’t you?
I imagine your LWOP extension would have to be approved.
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:16
  #635 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ROH111 View Post
Are you guys (and girls) saying that:


If you are on LWOP, you can not be made redundant?
From our email:

To provide you with further clarity regarding the LWOP offering, I can confirm that we will exercise our discretion to pass over any pilot on LWOP should it become necessary to enact a CR program, subject to the following conditions:
  • LWOP application must be submitted on or after 31 March 2020;
  • LWOP to commence no later than 7 August 2020;
  • LWOP application is for a period greater than 12 months; and
  • The pilot is on this period of LWOP at the time that CRs are notified.
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:36
  #636 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ROH111 View Post
Are you guys (and girls) saying that:

If you are on LWOP, you can not be made redundant?


Upon your return you might be made redundant.... but then you’d just extend your LWOP wouldn’t you?
Yes. The intention presumably is to get Junior folk to go on LWOP indefinitely (obviously the longer the better to avoid the possibility of coming off LWOP just to be made redundant on your return) until there is work for them, which stops the accrual of leave entitlements and I'd suspect simplifies to operation. How much is 6 weeks of leave a year worth, compared to the possibility of CR? I don't know. The 7th of August is the same day the VR applications close, so we won't know how many have taken it when we are supposed to already be on LWOP to avoid CR. You have to admit, it's industrially brilliant.
Forewarned is forearmed, as they say.

Last edited by SandyPalms; 11th Jul 2020 at 03:52.
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:39
  #637 (permalink)  
 
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Is that a company email? I haven’t seen it
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:50
  #638 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, from base operations yesterday morning.
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:51
  #639 (permalink)  
 
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The company wants people to stop accruing leave entitlements by forcing us on LWOP. Don't do it and you run the risk of a CR notice landing in your inbox.

This isn't just targeted at the junior crew for what its worth. If the bottom 400 recently hired SO's all take LWOP (and you would be stupid not to take it), guess who they are coming after next.

Its a threat to everyone. Want a future at Qantas? You have 4 weeks to take LWOP.
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 03:55
  #640 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JamieMaree View Post
More to the point, if they are as unhappy as they portray, they should do the honourable thing and resign.
Jamie, don't misinterpret my calling out the corruption of senior QF management as "being unhappy" - I have thoroughly enjoyed my career and feel privileged to have been selected quite a few years ago.

You don't have to be a naive "yes" man to enjoy your career.
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