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Government Loan to Virgin Australia

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Government Loan to Virgin Australia

Old 21st Apr 2020, 00:21
  #921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Jungle
Posts: 536
Originally Posted by KRviator View Post
Depends if their suppliers, fuel, catering, etc think they will get paid or move to rescind their contracts.

And now it is official. Here's the ASX announcement
Flights still operating from what I see on FR24.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 00:33
  #922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PER
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From TWU : “There is still time for the federal government to work on an investment plan to get through this period of crisis and taxpayers will get a double benefit. The government will retain a competitive aviation market and they will get a return on their equity stake.”

Will we get a return on our equity stake? When? The current shareholders haven't had much of a return for 10 years.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 00:35
  #923 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Southern Sun
Posts: 417
CASA did no have to pull Ansetts AOC: they were complicit in Ansett;s demise when they failed to properly and correctly undertake their obligatory oversight of Ansett, in particular Ansetts engineering responsibilities.

I.e. it is CASA's responsibility to ensure manufacturers modifications are carried out where in the case of the Ansett Boeing 767 they did not ensure Ansett carried out the rear pressure bulkhead modification; only when Boeing checked to see if this was done by the due date did the whatsit hit the fan when Boeing was obliged to tell
Ansett and CASA whereupon CASA had no option but to ground the aircraft. QED.

(Boeing was obliged i,e Boeing had to protect themselves)
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 00:40
  #924 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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For the TWU,
How can you formulate an “investment plan” when you don’t know when domestic travel will resume let alone international?
So people expect businesses to invest when you have no idea when revenue will start.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 00:53
  #925 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney
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Originally Posted by topend3 View Post
From TWU : “There is still time for the federal government to work on an investment plan to get through this period of crisis and taxpayers will get a double benefit. The government will retain a competitive aviation market and they will get a return on their equity stake.”

Will we get a return on our equity stake? When? The current shareholders haven't had much of a return for 10 years.
If the TWU think there is a return on an equity stake why don't they put their money where their mouth is and let TWU Super invest in Virgin to preserve jobs?
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 00:55
  #926 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 79
Posts: 231
From VA’s statement To passengers and to the Stock Exchange. ( not word perfect but correct info )
” We know you might be worried about what the Voluntary Administration news means for us and your flights.”
Rest assured, we’re continuing to operate scheduled flights as normal which are helping to transport essential workers ,maintain important freight corridors and return Australians home. Your travel credits also remain valid.”

Looks like I might be able to get home to Brisbane from Perth after all.
I sure hope so , it’s’ been a long unscheduled stay here!
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 01:00
  #927 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: rice bowl
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Before you buy your tickets on said route, find out about the refund options.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 01:08
  #928 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 79
Posts: 231
Already have a return ticket and allocated seat for flights home 26 May.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 01:10
  #929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lost in Space
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Originally Posted by John Citizen View Post
Yes, the success rate is under 10%. Good luck.

Success rate

success rate 2

success rate 3
I think you should read your articles again.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 01:50
  #930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,074
https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/202004...kq7kcb12fl.pdf

So VA enters the next phase.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 02:02
  #931 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 457
I think you should read your articles again.
Maybe you should read them again, otherwise let me quote them:

1st article:
Voluntary administrations that enter into DOCAs 28.5% DOCAs
that are successfully completed and deliver a trading enterprise within a year ~25% (writer’s estimate)
Overall result: estimate of percentage of insolvent companies that use voluntary administration to successfully restructure business (0.13*0.285*0.25)% 1%
2nd article:
We track a number of statistics and one of those is the success, or otherwise, of Voluntary Administrations. Here are the facts:
  • 15% of corporate insolvencies are Voluntary Administrations – the rest are liquidations or receiverships;
  • around 33% of VAs successfully execute a Deed of Company Arrangement (“DOCA”);
  • so only 5% of insolvent companies successfully executing a DOCA
3rd article:
Unfortunately, a close analysis of the facts reveals that voluntary administrations are actually very expensive and, in the vast majority of cases, fail in their stated objective of saving a business.
undertaken by the insolvency practitioners’ professional body, ARITA, to determine the success rate. It’s not good news:
  • 15% of corporate insolvencies are voluntary administrations;
  • 33% of voluntary administrations result in a DOCA;
  • 28% of DOCAs have some sort of “creative outcome”, such as saving the business.
So what does that devolve into? Voluntary administrations save around 2% of insolvent businesses. Ouch!
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 02:04
  #932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not where I want to be
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Why don't you come to Australia and theatrically tear a 200M dollar cheque for Virgin, Branson.

And yes I am aware of the current ownership structure. Branson always cashes out at others expense. I hope to see a renamed airline, phoenix like emerge from the ashes.
Virgin Atlantic is next.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 02:05
  #933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: rice bowl
Posts: 113
Ex Ansett.
Is Paul S ex Ansett? As he channeled is inner Rod E. “Great airline into a good business “
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 02:06
  #934 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: rice bowl
Posts: 113
No Branson would rather fleece a whole new bunch of people. Virgin Galatic
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 02:27
  #935 (permalink)  
 
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I doubt we will ever see Branson in Australia again. Good riddance show pony.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 02:28
  #936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: BAO
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Mark:

"Is Paul S ex Ansett? As he channeled is inner Rod E. “Great airline into a good business “ "
Yes.

Rgds
S28- BE
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 02:52
  #937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Originally Posted by markontop View Post
No Branson would rather fleece a whole new bunch of people. Virgin Galatic
Living the good life on his tax free Island. How fortunate. And of course, as he tells us, his wealth is mostly in assets and businesses so it’s not like he can use cash to help his staff. I’m just glad the bloke is finally seen for what he is - just another billionaire businessman in it for himself.
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 02:54
  #938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
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Paragraph377 what's your employment history? Ever employed by Virgin?
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Old 21st Apr 2020, 03:18
  #939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
The Directors had no choice because trading while insolvent would destroy them personally. This is why Directors and CEOs get paid big bucks, not that it is any consolation.

What I would hope for now is that the Australian Government leans over backward to ensure Virgin survives. The shareholders have lost pretty much everything, as is always their risk.

What concerns me now is that Qantas will be lobbying every decision maker in Government and Treasury - all the ******* ANU trained economists, to “let Virgin go” because “Australia can only afford one airline - economies of scale, you know”. Furthermore they will use every dirty trick in the book to destroy what’s left of Virgin. Probably already offering to honor their tickets, take their slots, rent their terminal space, etc., etc.

The critical issue now is the AOC and the continuing airworthiness of the aircraft and certification of crews. Once that gets affected Virgin is gone.That is where CASA comes in, they can either help keep Virgin on life support or be uncompromising and destroy it as they had to do to Ansett when they pulled the AOC.

God bless you all.
So pious !

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Old 21st Apr 2020, 04:06
  #940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,152
Administrators talking a good game at the press conference today. Way too upbeat for my liking, usually indicates large problems.

Come back in 3 months folks. We will find out if it’s salvageable later once they have run their knife through it.
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