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Government Loan to Virgin Australia

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Government Loan to Virgin Australia

Old 15th Apr 2020, 16:19
  #561 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Toruk Macto View Post
Sure, it might take a while, but it would be nice to see Alliance or another Australian owned operator take the mantle if required.

Australia wonít have awhile once the green is given to get back to work . Governments will be stimulating their economies , mines will be ramped up and lots of pent up holiday makers probably looking at flying domestically .
The government wonít be happy to wait awhile for a new RPT company to find its feet , purchase aircraft and train crew . Should VA fail , probably ? Would the economy be $1.4B better off if virgin where around next year ? More than likely .
The domestic travel industry generates no more income for the economy than the gambling industry or the sex industry. It simply transfers money from one region to another with no net gain. In fact because of fuel, aircraft leases, insurance, internationally owned hotel chains, car hire companies, etc thereís a net loss for the nation.
International tourism is different. But itís debatable whether weíre a net importer or exporter of international tourist dollars.

This goes to the very heart of whatís happening in Australia. 30 years of uninterrupted debt generated growth has rewired us. Weíve reset to relatively high income service careers and virtually abandoned manufacturing and producing occupations that actually generate wealth for the nation. Apart from primary industries and mining our major net importer of income is the education sector, along with the immigration sector. The last two will be in hiatus for quite awhile along with the cheap credit that has fueled our misconception that weíve generated wealth.

Weíll all get through the other side of this in good shape regardless of what happens to our respective airlines, itíll just be a different shape. Weíll all have less disposable income which will swing the pendulum away from service industries back to production and manufacturing. Itís probably a reset that was overdue and would have happened anyway.

Last edited by Progress Wanchai; 15th Apr 2020 at 18:02.
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 18:17
  #562 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai View Post
The domestic travel industry generates no more income for the economy than the gambling industry or the sex industry.
Gives me an idea for an airline... Leather-bound crew with stilettos and on board poker machines!

Talk about force multiplier!
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 23:40
  #563 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Wasnít QF owned by the government at this time anyway? Hardly any similarities between it and what VA want now if thatís the case
Exactly, Qf was on the tit for 70 years and Virgin is asking for a LOAN from a government that left the borders open despite a known threat and approaching pandemic.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 00:13
  #564 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Berealgetreal View Post
Virgin is asking for a LOAN from a government
Be real get real...the irony.


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Old 16th Apr 2020, 00:21
  #565 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Berealgetreal View Post
Exactly, Qf was on the tit for 70 years and Virgin is asking for a LOAN from a government that left the borders open despite a known threat and approaching pandemic.
First of all, you canít compare the two because the government OWNED QF. Thatís the same as if the owners of Virgin were to chip in (like theyíre supposed to).

Virgin is asking for an unsecured loan. If Virgin were to fold up, there isnít enough of the company left to repay the loan.

Take the emotion out of it and look at it logically
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 00:22
  #566 (permalink)  
 
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 00:36
  #567 (permalink)  
34R
 
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I can't believe people are attempting to draw parallels between floating Qantas and the current predicament VA now faces.
That's about as misguided as the childish PR campaign Virgin have been wasting their money on with full page adds in the print media and endless change.org campaigns on facebook.

But if you want to draw comparisons to the $1.35 billion that memo speaks of, when the remainder of the Qantas float proceeded in 1995, the government received A$1.45 billion in proceeds after the public share offer took place.
I doubt they will see a similar return on their investment this time around, particularly if the travel ban remains in force for another 6-10 months.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:05
  #568 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmm... lets see, government ownership in the country you operate in, including the lion's share of all the government contracts for say 98 years or multiple conflicting owners brought about because of a personal vendetta between two short men from Qantas group? What a leg up Virgin has had!

The irony will be when international hasn't recovered and half your workforce is gone whilst you spent time hanging shit on a tiny competitor and its staff during a particularly tough time. Keep praying for the VA failure.

Personally I hope all the share holders get wiped with their debt and a new owner turns up excluding the need for help from the tax payer. That, in my opinion, would be the best outcome.

Irony is the debt was racked up by a guy that worked for QF his whole life, left with millions in his pocket leaving 10,000 staff clinging to their jobs while competitor sinks the boot in. Heard of karma? Have another crack!
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:16
  #569 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe the board at Brisbane Airport needs to examine the credentials of one of its members recently departed from VA and consider whether he should be replaced.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:19
  #570 (permalink)  
 
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spent time hanging shit on a tiny competitor
Virgin/Branson was renowned for hanging shit on and laughing at the competitor, especially when he tore up that cheque from Ansett with a big happy arrogant smile.

Richard Branson tears a $240 million cheque

As someone else here mentioned, they even celebrated the collapse of Ansett.

Karma hurts.



Last edited by John Citizen; 16th Apr 2020 at 05:03.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:23
  #571 (permalink)  
 
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Now considering a move to Melbourne.

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/virg...0200416-p54kal

Virgin Australia is considering moving its corporate head office and Velocity Frequent Flyer businesses to Melbourne as part of its bid to save the company.

It is understood Virgin's board has discussed packing up the company's Brisbane headquarters and moving south, in a move that would impact an estimated 1500 employees.
Melbourne: home of the MCG and... Virgin Australia? Joe Armao

Likewise, the plan would see it also take Velocity Frequent Flyer to Melbourne, which would impact another 200 or so jobs.

It is understood Virgin reckons moving both arms to Melbourne could have a material impact to the company's bottom line, at a time when CEO Paul Scurrah and his team are trying to slash costs to ensure the airline owner survives COVID-19 and what could be a prolonged economic downturn.

While there are plenty of balls in the air at Virgin, the move is one option that could help the airline re-set its cost base for the long-term.


It is understood a Melbourne move has come up in discussions with creditors and investors as something under consideration. It is seen as a "Hail Mary" option and nothing has been finalised, sources said.

Paul Scurrah, CEO of Virgin Australia. Peter Braig

It comes as Virgin is fighting for survival and seeking measures to quickly reduce its $5 billion debt load. It is in talks with lenders, shareholders, potential investors and, perhaps most importantly, the government, in an effort to secure funds.

Virgin is believed to be seeking about $1.4 billion in fresh capital to spearhead a financial restructure. It went to the government seeking that amount a fortnight ago, and is exploring other avenues.

Its existing shareholders have declined to tip in fresh funds, as Street Talk revealed on Wednesday, and its bankers are now trying to rustle up interest among other potential investors.

Virgin had $4.8 billion in interest-bearing liabilities at December 31 and $900 million in unrestricted cash and short term investments. Its next debt maturity is a $US350 million ($546 million) bond due in October 2021.

Its shares are in a trading halt while the various discussions take place. The company's equity value was $720 million prior to the halt, although it is widely recognised by major shareholders that their investments will be wiped out as part of the looming restructure.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:29
  #572 (permalink)  
 
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How exactly would this save money? I would've thought commercial rents would be much higher in Melbourne than Brisbane, not to mention relocation costs, redundancies for staff that can't move, etc etc
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:30
  #573 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Des Dimona View Post
Maybe the board at Brisbane Airport needs to examine the credentials of one of its members recently departed from VA and consider whether he should be replaced.
Never. People like IL Douche seem to be revered for some reason. Itís all about Ďthe lookí, look at me I was a CEO! Hardly makes a person credible. Some of the worlds biggest profile CEOís are complete fu#kwits, but have the gift of the gab. Goes to show that you can stay with the one employer all your life, working your way from the mail room to the Board room and STILL be a completely useless moron.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:38
  #574 (permalink)  
 
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How exactly would this save money? I would've thought commercial rents would be much higher in Melbourne than Brisbane, not to mention relocation costs, redundancies for staff that can't move, etc etc
Victorian government money possibly ? State incentives for businesses to establish there and create employment. Sydney has its own airline in Qantas so Melbourne should have one as well.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:44
  #575 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe the Victorian govt is willing to give financial assistance. Labor in charge in Vic, who seem to be more in favour of a bailout for virgin than the Libs.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:51
  #576 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE View Post
Maybe the Victorian govt is willing to give financial assistance. Labor in charge in Vic, who seem to be more in favour of a bailout for virgin than the Libs.
Of course Fed Labor are in favour of it, they need a point of difference at a time they are gasping for air and desperately trying to be relevant. Crises are a bad time for oppositions.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 01:55
  #577 (permalink)  
-41
 
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Victorian government money possibly ? State incentives for businesses to establish there and create employment. Sydney has its own airline in Qantas so Melbourne should have one as well.
given PS has a strong Labor connection I assumed QLD would have given them more free money, maybe the communists in Vic are offering more $$$$.

Have the TT and VAINZ redundancies been paid?
Funny how they canít pay the employees but executives always get their $9.9million payouts immediately. I hope Karl is doing alright in these harsh economic times whilst on his gardening leave until June.

The taxpayers should not bail out VAH, it would be rewarding gross mismanagement by the current VAH board and executive.

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Old 16th Apr 2020, 02:16
  #578 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by -41 View Post
given PS has a strong Labor connection I assumed QLD would have given them more free money, maybe the communists in Vic are offering more $$$$.

Have the TT and VAINZ redundancies been paid?
Funny how they canít pay the employees but executives always get their $9.9million payouts immediately. I hope Karl is doing alright in these harsh economic times whilst on his gardening leave until June.

The taxpayers should not bail out VAH, it would be rewarding gross mismanagement by the current VAH board and executive.

VANZ have apparently been paid....
TT still waiting like usual.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 02:22
  #579 (permalink)  
 
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They were looking at moving into the new Target Office building in Melbourne (Williams Landing) were they not?

If they want to attract quality talent inside the office then they need to be in Melbourne or Sydney. Whether itís Data, IT, Creative, Finance, whatever, the best of best reside in these two cities. Target was previously based in Geelong. They have now moved to Melbourne in a bid to secure better talent from local and abroad. They built a new office next to the train station.

Dan has a habit of throwing cash around, the taxpayer already pays for Jetstarís red ink at Avalon for the next decade, shouldnít be an issue.
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Old 16th Apr 2020, 02:39
  #580 (permalink)  
 
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As someone else here mentioned, they even celebrated the collapse of Ansett.

Karma hurts.
What goes around comes round............

It was disgusting watching a small minority of Virgin Blue staff dancing around the Ansett collapse. As one who went through this terrible time, I really feel for the vast majority of Virgin pilots who would equally be disturbed by the actions of some in past times.

Australia needs 2 airlines and I hope VA survives in one form or another.
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