Bankstown Airport Gouges Users
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sydney
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snarek
Thanks Andrew. Already have spoken with John a couple of times. Last I heard the Chamber and AOPA were trying to convince the BAL Board among other things, of the financial shortsightedness of turning away previously loyal customers, no matter how small.
As a matter of interest, source 2001 BAL Annual report.
Total aero charges for aircraft < 2 tonnes, 12 mths to June 2001 ..... $200,000
Remuneration to 8 (now 4) directors for 8 meetings, same period ..... $306,000
This on a total revenue of $9.1 million.
Hotpete, RAJAM, Wheeler and anyone else currently unhappy about TOLL charges.
Torres says ..
"Two choices: buy a bottle of Vaseline or move to another airport.
P.S. Good luck anyhow. I hope you do get some satisfaction!"
Sorry mate, even for those who don't move we're aviation types and would only ever use approved aero oil.
There is also a third choice. If you feel you have been treated unfairly by BAL, phone or write them saying so. Object to the unreasonable increase and ask for a reduction (or whatever). If they say take it or go, log onto the Fair Trading Site,
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/co...complaint.html
and fill in the form. It only takes a few minutes.
Whilst the Airport Chamber of Commerce and AOPA continue with their campaign, we as individual BAL "customers" can also do something. What do you have to lose.
Respect the more experienced. They're the ones qualified to make brand new mistakes.
Thanks Andrew. Already have spoken with John a couple of times. Last I heard the Chamber and AOPA were trying to convince the BAL Board among other things, of the financial shortsightedness of turning away previously loyal customers, no matter how small.
As a matter of interest, source 2001 BAL Annual report.
Total aero charges for aircraft < 2 tonnes, 12 mths to June 2001 ..... $200,000
Remuneration to 8 (now 4) directors for 8 meetings, same period ..... $306,000
This on a total revenue of $9.1 million.
Hotpete, RAJAM, Wheeler and anyone else currently unhappy about TOLL charges.
Torres says ..
"Two choices: buy a bottle of Vaseline or move to another airport.
P.S. Good luck anyhow. I hope you do get some satisfaction!"
Sorry mate, even for those who don't move we're aviation types and would only ever use approved aero oil.
There is also a third choice. If you feel you have been treated unfairly by BAL, phone or write them saying so. Object to the unreasonable increase and ask for a reduction (or whatever). If they say take it or go, log onto the Fair Trading Site,
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/co...complaint.html
and fill in the form. It only takes a few minutes.
Whilst the Airport Chamber of Commerce and AOPA continue with their campaign, we as individual BAL "customers" can also do something. What do you have to lose.
Respect the more experienced. They're the ones qualified to make brand new mistakes.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canberra
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In relpy to GearOffs comment about CAS moving to CH. This is not the case from what I have been told.
They like a number of other organisations have two choices with regard to the increase in airport charges, 1. absorb the costs themselves or 2. pass that increase directly t the consumer.
I believe that the second option is the approach that will be taken. No organisation will be able to absorb that amount of cost and remain viable.
So once again, who are the losers in this case??? ..... The trainee pilots who provide the income for the instructors.
What will be the longterm effect of this if the decision is not over turned?
How many more unemployeed pilots does the country need?
They like a number of other organisations have two choices with regard to the increase in airport charges, 1. absorb the costs themselves or 2. pass that increase directly t the consumer.
I believe that the second option is the approach that will be taken. No organisation will be able to absorb that amount of cost and remain viable.
So once again, who are the losers in this case??? ..... The trainee pilots who provide the income for the instructors.
What will be the longterm effect of this if the decision is not over turned?
How many more unemployeed pilots does the country need?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
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I think Hmm…. Your spot on, the new owners of YSBK have an ulterior motive, make $$$$$. 
If that means subdividing for housing they will do it. Personally I will not be paying for the increased charges at YSBK if they are passed on to us pilots; I would sooner travel to WYVA “The Central Coast” or Wollongong etc. 
If that means subdividing for housing they will do it. Personally I will not be paying for the increased charges at YSBK if they are passed on to us pilots; I would sooner travel to WYVA “The Central Coast” or Wollongong etc.
Join Date: May 2002
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At Archerfield a lot of people left. Redcliffe got quite popular and Caboolture opened up (but is under threat).
You guys in Sydney have more choice, Wolongong, The Oaks, Warnervale etc. So go there!!!!
Work out the costs. Is Goulburn out of the question.
But if you do that YSBK may well become housing. Then it is gone forever. So, even if you do leave, form a lobby group and only vote for a pollie that ACTUALLY helps you. That solidarity is vital.
A certain eccentric englishman has tried for a while to destroy AOPA. I am sure CASA, airport owners and other shysters thank him for that. But one thing GA needs is a strong solid body to fight for it, we don't have that now. We also need a strong AOPA committee that looks after our interests, not their own grandiose ideas. You can only support those on the committee who will listen to you if you are a member.
So, despite what you think of the politics, if you ain't a member ... JOIN!!!!
You guys in Sydney have more choice, Wolongong, The Oaks, Warnervale etc. So go there!!!!
Work out the costs. Is Goulburn out of the question.
But if you do that YSBK may well become housing. Then it is gone forever. So, even if you do leave, form a lobby group and only vote for a pollie that ACTUALLY helps you. That solidarity is vital.
A certain eccentric englishman has tried for a while to destroy AOPA. I am sure CASA, airport owners and other shysters thank him for that. But one thing GA needs is a strong solid body to fight for it, we don't have that now. We also need a strong AOPA committee that looks after our interests, not their own grandiose ideas. You can only support those on the committee who will listen to you if you are a member.
So, despite what you think of the politics, if you ain't a member ... JOIN!!!!
Join Date: May 2001
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Ulm,
Good point re Archerfield - so quiet there these days. It would be interesting to know how many people have left there. The rumours are that there are plenty and it is interesting to see the ads in the Trader for fields in the Brisbane area. If BK owners perhaps took a look at their experience.....but then again, maybe AF is going exactly the way the owners want it to.
I cannot see BK going for housing - after all, it still is a potential political solution to the SY airport debacle - and perhaps the only one. CN and HOX? well, now there might be a different story.
Thanks for all the Ads re AOPA - yes we do need a strong body and we cannot complain if we do not get behind one. However, some might well argue that AOPA were part of the cause of the GAAP problems - and why should we get behind them now?
What we really need is a new training airfield. Something nice and flat, about 1000m, with good approaches, close enough to the CBD etc etc. I've never been near it, but that nice little strip in Holdsworthy looks lovely!
Good point re Archerfield - so quiet there these days. It would be interesting to know how many people have left there. The rumours are that there are plenty and it is interesting to see the ads in the Trader for fields in the Brisbane area. If BK owners perhaps took a look at their experience.....but then again, maybe AF is going exactly the way the owners want it to.
I cannot see BK going for housing - after all, it still is a potential political solution to the SY airport debacle - and perhaps the only one. CN and HOX? well, now there might be a different story.
Thanks for all the Ads re AOPA - yes we do need a strong body and we cannot complain if we do not get behind one. However, some might well argue that AOPA were part of the cause of the GAAP problems - and why should we get behind them now?
What we really need is a new training airfield. Something nice and flat, about 1000m, with good approaches, close enough to the CBD etc etc. I've never been near it, but that nice little strip in Holdsworthy looks lovely!
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Personally I agree with ulm (also be involved with AOPA, 02 9791 9099) and we need to form a local action group to save the local GAAP airports otherwise we will need to look elsewhere and travel further. If you need to look else where for training, that's what you will have to do, but at least try and fight to keep the major airports from being over run by the greedy developers.
AOPA Australia
If you do need to move, I have found Warnervale Air Pty Ltd and excellent Flying School for doing your flying training. They do every thing from GFPT through to CPL. (I did not say they are perfect, and no school is, if you find the perfect school you can let us all know.)
They have very good instructors, and the aircraft are reasonably priced compared to Bankstown as they do not have the expensive landing charges and expensive operating charges & associated costs. You will find the Central Coast Aero club a great bunch too if you looking for a good social group. (If you’re a member you get a discount on the hiring of aircraft from Warnervale Air Pty Ltd, plus many other benefits.) If you need more information give them a call on 02 4392 5174
If you’re a private aircraft owner you will find it a lot cheaper keeping your aircraft at a place like Warnervale, Wollongong or Goulburn etc. You need to look around and compare the costs and charges.
AOPA Australia If you do need to move, I have found Warnervale Air Pty Ltd and excellent Flying School for doing your flying training. They do every thing from GFPT through to CPL. (I did not say they are perfect, and no school is, if you find the perfect school you can let us all know.)
They have very good instructors, and the aircraft are reasonably priced compared to Bankstown as they do not have the expensive landing charges and expensive operating charges & associated costs. You will find the Central Coast Aero club a great bunch too if you looking for a good social group. (If you’re a member you get a discount on the hiring of aircraft from Warnervale Air Pty Ltd, plus many other benefits.) If you need more information give them a call on 02 4392 5174
If you’re a private aircraft owner you will find it a lot cheaper keeping your aircraft at a place like Warnervale, Wollongong or Goulburn etc. You need to look around and compare the costs and charges.
Last edited by awetzel; 20th Aug 2002 at 01:29.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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awetzel
You see we don't allow advertising here, but given the nature and importance of the topic I'll have to think about it for a bit.
To retain some balance, I'll have to offer BAL the right of reply, can somebody point me at the right person with an email address as their "contact" site for feedback requires all manner of information, before they will accept an email.
A most ingenious paradox!
We've quips and quibbles heard in flocks,
But none to beat this paradox!
A paradox, a paradox,
A most ingenious paradox!
G & S The PIRATES OF PENZANCE
We've quips and quibbles heard in flocks,
But none to beat this paradox!
A paradox, a paradox,
A most ingenious paradox!
G & S The PIRATES OF PENZANCE
To retain some balance, I'll have to offer BAL the right of reply, can somebody point me at the right person with an email address as their "contact" site for feedback requires all manner of information, before they will accept an email.
Join Date: Mar 2002
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AF population.
Was told by an engineer last time in AF;
350+ aircraft based at YBAF just before privatisation.
Just over 250 aircraft based at YBAF as of June 30 2002. Population decreasing at the rate of 2-3 aircraft per month.
I thought it was B.S. until I saw the increases of aircraft numbers at Redcliffe, Caboolture, Boonah & Watts Bridge.
350+ aircraft based at YBAF just before privatisation.
Just over 250 aircraft based at YBAF as of June 30 2002. Population decreasing at the rate of 2-3 aircraft per month.
I thought it was B.S. until I saw the increases of aircraft numbers at Redcliffe, Caboolture, Boonah & Watts Bridge.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Holsworthy
Is that the tiny little bitumen strip with hangars I see coming into sydney.
oh yeah, I think you should join AOPA too
besides, if you don't like what an organisation does or did, or the way it runs, join and change it. That's why I nominated for the Board. It was that or leave. Now I'm in I can have no complaints, if i don't like something that happens then I didn't persuade hard enough!!!!
(or i didn't get any support cos all those who think like i do aint members )
Is that the tiny little bitumen strip with hangars I see coming into sydney.
oh yeah, I think you should join AOPA too
besides, if you don't like what an organisation does or did, or the way it runs, join and change it. That's why I nominated for the Board. It was that or leave. Now I'm in I can have no complaints, if i don't like something that happens then I didn't persuade hard enough!!!!
(or i didn't get any support cos all those who think like i do aint members
)
Join Date: Apr 2002
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snarek, ulm, awetzel
I agree with you regarding joining AOPA and being involved in saving our GAAP airports otherwise we will have further to travel to; Wolongong, The Oaks, Warnervale or Goulburn, Maitland, Cessnock or even maybe Bathurst.
I agree with you regarding joining AOPA
and being involved in saving our GAAP airports otherwise we will have further to travel to; Wolongong, The Oaks, Warnervale or Goulburn, Maitland, Cessnock or even maybe Bathurst.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Woomera
The BAL General Manager is Kim Ellis but he no longer replies to my letters and I don't have an e-mail address for him. Maybe someone from BAL cruises PPrune and can supply it.
Snarek and AOPA advocates.
I am a "lapsed" member but have contacted AOPA and others, offering to help or support in anyway I can, as well as conducting my own campaign. Whether to re-join AOPA ... it is very much a case of chicken and egg. When AOPA shows it can really be a uniting influence able to speak for the disparate sections of GA it may be able to overturn decisions like this. BAL is not interested in small GA and has no real feeling for aviation. I think they will only respond to pressure from above and this will have to be a political battle. I visit AOPA's website daily looking for some call to action, not only from members but all affected parties. So far nothing. Perhaps to attract new members requires a show of genuine leadership first. Perhaps I am impatient or just completely up the wrong tree.
In the meantime the Dept of Fair Trading has replied saying it is not in their jurisdiction, referring me to the ACCC. The ACCC told them business's like BAL can charge whatever they like! I do not accept this and have asked Fair Trading to explain how a business in NSW can use it's monopoly position to treat small customers who have no bargaining power, with such contempt. Isn't this why we have a Dept of FAIR TRADING ?? Depending on the reply the next step will be to the Minister.
awetzel
Warnervale .. a great place to get REALLY proficient with crosswind landings. (At least if you want to stay on the sealed part of the strip!). Moved there already for the time being. It does seem a very good place.
The BAL General Manager is Kim Ellis but he no longer replies to my letters and I don't have an e-mail address for him. Maybe someone from BAL cruises PPrune and can supply it.
Snarek and AOPA advocates.
I am a "lapsed" member but have contacted AOPA and others, offering to help or support in anyway I can, as well as conducting my own campaign. Whether to re-join AOPA ... it is very much a case of chicken and egg. When AOPA shows it can really be a uniting influence able to speak for the disparate sections of GA it may be able to overturn decisions like this. BAL is not interested in small GA and has no real feeling for aviation. I think they will only respond to pressure from above and this will have to be a political battle. I visit AOPA's website daily looking for some call to action, not only from members but all affected parties. So far nothing. Perhaps to attract new members requires a show of genuine leadership first. Perhaps I am impatient or just completely up the wrong tree.
In the meantime the Dept of Fair Trading has replied saying it is not in their jurisdiction, referring me to the ACCC. The ACCC told them business's like BAL can charge whatever they like! I do not accept this and have asked Fair Trading to explain how a business in NSW can use it's monopoly position to treat small customers who have no bargaining power, with such contempt. Isn't this why we have a Dept of FAIR TRADING ?? Depending on the reply the next step will be to the Minister.
awetzel
Warnervale .. a great place to get REALLY proficient with crosswind landings. (At least if you want to stay on the sealed part of the strip!). Moved there already for the time being. It does seem a very good place.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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The Central Coast is not a bad place to live, also nice and close to Warnervale Airport.
You still have to watch the local housing estates as they have moved in there too, and are trying to stop Warnervale airport from developing any larger especially the Watanobbi crew up on the hill there. (The Watanobbi crew have tried to put pressure on the local Wyong Council to close it.)
I know a bit about the local gossip as my in laws live at Bateau Bay, plus we own a couple of investment properties on the Central Coast.
You still have to watch the local housing estates as they have moved in there too, and are trying to stop Warnervale airport from developing any larger especially the Watanobbi crew up on the hill there. (The Watanobbi crew have tried to put pressure on the local Wyong Council to close it.)
I know a bit about the local gossip as my in laws live at Bateau Bay, plus we own a couple of investment properties on the Central Coast.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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It looks like the Historical Aircraft Restoration Society (HARS) have to go now. No more free rent. There is a bit of gossip on the
The Sydney Airport Message Board, under the heading Bad news for Bankstown spotters/listeners/photographers
The Sydney Airport Message Board, under the heading Bad news for Bankstown spotters/listeners/photographers
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North son, I say go North..........
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At least on the East Coast you have a choice.
Try Darwin where can we go? No where we just have to pay up. In December last year we had a similar (more) increase in landing fees. The justification was additional security etc, when really it was to pay for the demise of Ansett.
Darwin, Tennant Creek and Alice Springs are all owned by the same operator and the same hikes were across the board. Just about costs $100 to slap the wheels on the ground in a Chief.
But then again who really cares we are just the local opertors...
Try Darwin where can we go? No where we just have to pay up. In December last year we had a similar (more) increase in landing fees. The justification was additional security etc, when really it was to pay for the demise of Ansett.
Darwin, Tennant Creek and Alice Springs are all owned by the same operator and the same hikes were across the board. Just about costs $100 to slap the wheels on the ground in a Chief.
But then again who really cares we are just the local opertors...
