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VA pilots worried about employment 2021

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VA pilots worried about employment 2021

Old 31st Mar 2020, 20:11
  #741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 101
Virgin notes (ASX: VAHHA) are trading at less than 50% with a market capitalisation of < $ 500 million. There is no capacity to generate enough income to trade out of this while COVID is around.

VAH investors are looking to shore up their own core companies and so far, have failed to come to the table, and it seems unlikely the Australian government will fund a commercial bail out.

Isn't it time to preserve the remaining cash for staff payouts rather than throw good money after bad?

There will be a better airline that will rise from this.
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Old 31st Mar 2020, 20:52
  #742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
The net result is the NZ government has over 80% of the issued scrip.
I'm sorry, I don't understand how you can own 80% of the issued scrip and still have only a 52% shareholding?
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Old 31st Mar 2020, 21:13
  #743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
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After the $885 million injection, yes the New Zealand government had over 80%. It's since been diluted.
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Old 31st Mar 2020, 22:51
  #744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
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As a QF driver, I really do hope Virgin get through this and it must be a very difficult time.
If the government hadnít let every Tom, Dick and Harry government funded airline fly 20 A380ís a day into Australia,Virgin international would have had a chance to prosper and not drain so much capital from the rest of the business.
Good luck guys hope we both make it to the other side !
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Old 31st Mar 2020, 23:25
  #745 (permalink)  
 
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I agree - this country really needs 2 airlines for healthy competition - even if the current iteration of VAH folds, there is sure to be a much leaner Virgin Australia to follow on the other side.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 00:00
  #746 (permalink)  
 
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It appears VAH are looking to raise funds by selling their unencumbered B777-300ERs. Based on what Etihad received for their B777-300ERs the best VAH could expect in the current climate is just USD30M per pop. Sad days to be even sadder later in the year. With both Airbus and Boeing suspending production of new aircraft until further notice this in theory will help support the used aircraft market.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 00:03
  #747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Qld
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Originally Posted by strobes_on View Post
I agree - this country really needs 2 airlines for healthy competition - even if the current iteration of VAH folds, there is sure to be a much leaner Virgin Australia to follow on the other side.
Even if VAH in its current form files for administration, the "mk 2" carrier thar rises from the ashes by the administrators may not actually carry the "Virgin" name. Purely to save on $$ licensing fees to Branson himself.

Whatever airline(s) rises from a VAH bankruptcy may be called something else instead of 'Virgin Australia'.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 00:08
  #748 (permalink)  
 
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surely does that not speak to past business decisions?
That mentality is exaclty what needs to be put aside.
It's the business going foward that needs to be considered, not past mis management.
My speculation as an outsider is that a new VA will closer resemble the original company anyway.

I think it's nothing more than childish for AJ saying Qantas should get $4B+ if virgin get thier $1.4B. Some of the populous get goverment handouts that I dont because they NEED them. Just because my neighbour gets a dole payment doesnt mean I need to (yet)

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Old 1st Apr 2020, 00:25
  #749 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
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Virgin 777s have small cargo doors - that will really knock the value down.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 00:26
  #750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
That mentality is exaclty what needs to be put aside.
It's the business going foward that needs to be considered, not past mis management.
My speculation as an outsider is that a new VA will closer resemble the original company anyway.

I think it's nothing more than childish for AJ saying Qantas should get $4B+ if virgin get thier $1.4B. Some of the populous get goverment handouts that I dont because they NEED them. Just because my neighbour gets a dole payment doesnt mean I need to (yet)
I don't have a dog in this "fight" at all, but you can't compare the dole and individuals to a foreign owned corporation that has directly been mismanaged to the position its in. It is entirely fair Qantas receive proportional support, VA shouldn't be allowed to end up in a better relative position because of government support and end up on a level playing field because QF didn't get the same support (yes, overly simplified for sure, but you know what I mean). COVID-19 appears to be the final nail in the coffin for VA, but it sure wasn't the first one.

The only argument you can make for a VA bailout is that it will benefit Australian's with increased competition; without that, there is very little incentive for a bailout. It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

Regardless, the hurt is going to be real for all their employee's, and I wish everyone the absolute best of luck and fortune,
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 00:50
  #751 (permalink)  
 
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The business (or work) was there and will probably return with time after this covid thing. As to who actually does it remains to be seen.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 00:55
  #752 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Originally Posted by B772 View Post
It appears VAH are looking to raise funds by selling their unencumbered B777-300ERs. Based on what Etihad received for their B777-300ERs the best VAH could expect in the current climate is just USD30M per pop. Sad days to be even sadder later in the year. With both Airbus and Boeing suspending production of new aircraft until further notice this in theory will help support the used aircraft market.
Any source for this?

Iím not doubting you, but I would be interested to read any first hand information. A quick google search didnít show up any articles.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 01:09
  #753 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Virgin 777s have small cargo doors - that will really knock the value down.
I think they are going to rue that decision for a while longer yet.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 03:56
  #754 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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is entirely fair Qantas receive proportional support, VA shouldn't be allowed to end up in a better relative position because of government support
Except its not entirely fair and that's the issue. Virgin actually have a need for the funding to survive, Qantas at this stage are merely saying 'if he gets some I want some'.

Remember Qantas is not Australian owned either (admittedly more so that VA). The relevance of a funding agreement cannot be limited by who owns most of the company, as at the end of the day nearly every employee, contractor, and supplier IS Australian.

All going to plan the loan is repaid and no harm done, or it's not and the goverment takes an equity stake of a size none of us know - perhaps more than half. All of a sudden VA will no longer be majority foreign owned anyway.

Of course the cards might all collapse anyway but if that is delayed a couple of years then in all likeliness the rest of the economy will be in a better position to absorb the fall out.

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Old 1st Apr 2020, 03:57
  #755 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DanV2 View Post
Even if VAH in its current form files for administration, the "mk 2" carrier thar rises from the ashes by the administrators may not actually carry the "Virgin" name. Purely to save on $$ licensing fees to Branson himself.

Whatever airline(s) rises from a VAH bankruptcy may be called something else instead of 'Virgin Australia'.
Let's hope so. It was helpful I'm sure, in building a brand for the LCC version of Virgin Blue, but they should have tossed it and the ridiculous licensing fees many years ago. Stupidity.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 05:12
  #756 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA View Post
It is entirely fair Qantas receive proportional support, VA shouldn't be allowed to end up in a better relative position because of government support and end up on a level playing field because QF didn't get the same support (yes, overly simplified for sure, but you know what I mean)
The irony being that QF were gifted an entire Domestic Airline to set it on it's path back in the day. AN, at the time, had to build and invest in an International airline to match it but with the 2 clowns that held the reigns at the time were hardly forthcoming with funds.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 05:40
  #757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Originally Posted by non_state_actor View Post
I think they are going to rue that decision for a while longer yet.
Interesting that sale and lease back was being discussed in 2009, back then it was estimated that each A/C could fetch $100 million.

SMH - Small cargo door restricts Virgin
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 08:10
  #758 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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You would be lucky to get a third of that price for a 12 year old B777. Even less for some A330's.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 09:58
  #759 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Most locked down city in the world
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https://www.health.gov.au/sites/defa...?itok=y7fyOd1X
Thought I post this. About 24/02 if we closed all our international borders to everything all domestic airlines
would be operating today still in a better capacity than now. All aussies wanting to come back would need that 14 day isolation.
It would of saved millions of jobs. Now we know what to do next time.
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Old 1st Apr 2020, 19:09
  #760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK/OZ
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Selfish question, what should I do with 450k velocity miles?
Transfer, throw a dart at the calendar and book a flight, buy a piece of tat from the online store.. or sit tight?



Mjb
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