Buying Water Bombers For Australia?
Yeah, an opinion piece by Miranda Devine is really going to convince me the fire chiefs in NSW and Victoria, local fire brigades across NSW and inidvidual firefighters are bunch of idiots who can’t see the “green menace” in front of their eyes...../s
On December 29, 2005, when our home and the homes of two of our neighbours were destroyed by a fire that began in adjoining bush controlled by the ACT government, it was not the worst thing to happen in my life.
Still, it was pretty devastating. And too many Australians know how it feels. Thankfully none of us was home. I say thankfully because we didn’t witness the *destruction of things we held dear, except on the news when we watched the flames of the devil in concert erupting from the roof. We didn’t have to hear the terrifying roar, never had to make that agonising decision about how long to fight or when to run.
That only three houses were destroyed and another damaged was thanks to the fast action of the fire brigade, and a wind change. The whole suburb could have gone up, which would have been a different story, like in 2003 when Canberra was devastated by fires that killed four people and destroyed 470 homes.
We didn’t expect any sympathy and we didn’t get any. *Instead we were blamed for the loss of our homes by the greenest of green governments in Australia, which had failed miserably to manage its vacant reserve. The *experience only deepened my exasperation with the failures of government at critical times and with the zealots on both sides of the climate change debate: those who act as if the solution is to head back to the Dark Ages, and those who argue that because Australia alone can’t fix it right now, today, then it’s pointless to do anything. Hang the consequences for the economy and our living standards on the one hand, or learn to live with fires, drought and floods on the other. Everything — our forests, water and intimate surrounds — can be managed better by us as individuals or by those we elect, but often it seems once the crisis passes, so too the desire for permanent solutions.
The last thing the Greens *appear to want is any kind of *sensible solution because they profit from the fight. So do those who despise them whose bile, often directed at children, for god’s sake, only encourages lazy governments. The all-or-nothing discourse is dispiriting. Ultimately, whatever improvements we make to our *environment, to clear the air and water and sustain vegetation, will help us and the planet stay safer and healthier.
In our case, we had been pleading for months with the ACT government, via letters from our corporate body secretary, for regular clean-ups of the adjoining land, home of the historic Can*berra brickworks where the distinctive red bricks were forged to build the national capital.
For years my husband cleared an area behind our fence of a couple metres wide to provide a firebreak and try to ward off the critters — brown snakes, foxes, kangaroos. He still does.
We feared, even before 2003, at some point fire would break out in the brickworks. A few months after those fires the authorities visited to discuss removing trees from the other side of our brush fencing because they could be a fire hazard. We asked if three tall pines on our side of the fence could be removed. If trees like them were a fire hazard on one side of the fence, they were surely fire hazards on the other. We didn’t want every tree removed, just those we thought might be a threat. They denied permission, suggesting the pines were heritage-listed.
Soon the reserve was again overgrown. Mounds of blackberry bushes were sprayed and the remains left to become tinder dry. Grasses flourished, shrubs and trees self-seeded. *Repeated written requests for a clean-up went unheeded. We asked again in 2005 for permission to remove the pines. They sent two experts with tape measures. They noted the size of the trunks, their distance from the house, the overhang of their canopies and so on. Finally we *received written permission to *remove them — with one condition. We had to wait three months *before we could chop them down, a “cooling off” period.
Those three months expired on December 29, 2005. The fire began in the long grasslands of the brickworks, devoured the dried-out blackberry bushes, then hit our pine trees, which lit up like giant candles, according to our neighbour who tried to douse the fire with a hose.
I found burnt branches of pine inside what remained of our house. I am no forensic expert but my theory is they dropped on to the roof, burnt through the skylights and the tiles, igniting the house. The cause was never established although two youngsters confessed to police they had been smoking in the brickworks.
All the damaged properties were surrounded by brush fencing, which the builder had been *required to install when the *houses were built in the early 1980s, because, as he told us, the government decreed it blended in better with the environment.
In the fight between the *insurance company and the government, the government argued the brush fencing was responsible for the destruction; a police report blamed the fuel loads in the *government-owned reserve. So it was our fault for not replacing fencing the government had for environmental aesthetics insisted on, *despite neighbours metres away with brush fencing being *unscathed.
Apart from losing some precious things, what hurt most was seeing the scorched earth that used to be our garden full of plants, many of which had been given to me by my parents. Don’t get me started on the looting of the few that remained. One of the men who had come to measure the trees was the local ABC radio gardening guru. He *described my yard that day as a small oasis. He drove past a few days after the fire to see what had happened. Spotting him, I asked if he would like to see the garden again. He refused but *offered up that at least they had given approval for the trees to be removed.
I believe it is possible for every suburbanite to change their climate simply by careful planting of trees — deciduous ones to provide shade in the summer and allow the sun to pour in during winter. It took a few years to restore our *micro-climate. When Earth Hour began, not long after our house and garden were destroyed, as the government was blaming us for it, while lecturing us on our duties while they neglected theirs, I was tempted to leave the lights on and the taps running all night. They made me as angry as those who rail against moves to ban single-use plastic bags or straws.
The preaching is infuriating. So is the denialism. Much worse is the hypocrisy, a wilful disregard for tending to the basics and the dearth of common sense.
Looking out my window now, my oasis is restored. So are the long grasses on a steep mound *behind the house. We watched them in bobcats build this mound out of contaminated rubble after we had rebuilt, warning them it was too steep to mow. They *ignored us. What would we know?
Still, it was pretty devastating. And too many Australians know how it feels. Thankfully none of us was home. I say thankfully because we didn’t witness the *destruction of things we held dear, except on the news when we watched the flames of the devil in concert erupting from the roof. We didn’t have to hear the terrifying roar, never had to make that agonising decision about how long to fight or when to run.
That only three houses were destroyed and another damaged was thanks to the fast action of the fire brigade, and a wind change. The whole suburb could have gone up, which would have been a different story, like in 2003 when Canberra was devastated by fires that killed four people and destroyed 470 homes.
We didn’t expect any sympathy and we didn’t get any. *Instead we were blamed for the loss of our homes by the greenest of green governments in Australia, which had failed miserably to manage its vacant reserve. The *experience only deepened my exasperation with the failures of government at critical times and with the zealots on both sides of the climate change debate: those who act as if the solution is to head back to the Dark Ages, and those who argue that because Australia alone can’t fix it right now, today, then it’s pointless to do anything. Hang the consequences for the economy and our living standards on the one hand, or learn to live with fires, drought and floods on the other. Everything — our forests, water and intimate surrounds — can be managed better by us as individuals or by those we elect, but often it seems once the crisis passes, so too the desire for permanent solutions.
The last thing the Greens *appear to want is any kind of *sensible solution because they profit from the fight. So do those who despise them whose bile, often directed at children, for god’s sake, only encourages lazy governments. The all-or-nothing discourse is dispiriting. Ultimately, whatever improvements we make to our *environment, to clear the air and water and sustain vegetation, will help us and the planet stay safer and healthier.
In our case, we had been pleading for months with the ACT government, via letters from our corporate body secretary, for regular clean-ups of the adjoining land, home of the historic Can*berra brickworks where the distinctive red bricks were forged to build the national capital.
For years my husband cleared an area behind our fence of a couple metres wide to provide a firebreak and try to ward off the critters — brown snakes, foxes, kangaroos. He still does.
We feared, even before 2003, at some point fire would break out in the brickworks. A few months after those fires the authorities visited to discuss removing trees from the other side of our brush fencing because they could be a fire hazard. We asked if three tall pines on our side of the fence could be removed. If trees like them were a fire hazard on one side of the fence, they were surely fire hazards on the other. We didn’t want every tree removed, just those we thought might be a threat. They denied permission, suggesting the pines were heritage-listed.
Soon the reserve was again overgrown. Mounds of blackberry bushes were sprayed and the remains left to become tinder dry. Grasses flourished, shrubs and trees self-seeded. *Repeated written requests for a clean-up went unheeded. We asked again in 2005 for permission to remove the pines. They sent two experts with tape measures. They noted the size of the trunks, their distance from the house, the overhang of their canopies and so on. Finally we *received written permission to *remove them — with one condition. We had to wait three months *before we could chop them down, a “cooling off” period.
Those three months expired on December 29, 2005. The fire began in the long grasslands of the brickworks, devoured the dried-out blackberry bushes, then hit our pine trees, which lit up like giant candles, according to our neighbour who tried to douse the fire with a hose.
I found burnt branches of pine inside what remained of our house. I am no forensic expert but my theory is they dropped on to the roof, burnt through the skylights and the tiles, igniting the house. The cause was never established although two youngsters confessed to police they had been smoking in the brickworks.
All the damaged properties were surrounded by brush fencing, which the builder had been *required to install when the *houses were built in the early 1980s, because, as he told us, the government decreed it blended in better with the environment.
In the fight between the *insurance company and the government, the government argued the brush fencing was responsible for the destruction; a police report blamed the fuel loads in the *government-owned reserve. So it was our fault for not replacing fencing the government had for environmental aesthetics insisted on, *despite neighbours metres away with brush fencing being *unscathed.
Apart from losing some precious things, what hurt most was seeing the scorched earth that used to be our garden full of plants, many of which had been given to me by my parents. Don’t get me started on the looting of the few that remained. One of the men who had come to measure the trees was the local ABC radio gardening guru. He *described my yard that day as a small oasis. He drove past a few days after the fire to see what had happened. Spotting him, I asked if he would like to see the garden again. He refused but *offered up that at least they had given approval for the trees to be removed.
I believe it is possible for every suburbanite to change their climate simply by careful planting of trees — deciduous ones to provide shade in the summer and allow the sun to pour in during winter. It took a few years to restore our *micro-climate. When Earth Hour began, not long after our house and garden were destroyed, as the government was blaming us for it, while lecturing us on our duties while they neglected theirs, I was tempted to leave the lights on and the taps running all night. They made me as angry as those who rail against moves to ban single-use plastic bags or straws.
The preaching is infuriating. So is the denialism. Much worse is the hypocrisy, a wilful disregard for tending to the basics and the dearth of common sense.
Looking out my window now, my oasis is restored. So are the long grasses on a steep mound *behind the house. We watched them in bobcats build this mound out of contaminated rubble after we had rebuilt, warning them it was too steep to mow. They *ignored us. What would we know?
But WHY is there fuel for the fire? Sure you need increased hazard reduction- because longer, dryer summers mean A BIGGER HAZARD!!
Is that really so hard to understand??
Is that really so hard to understand??
In our particular case we as loosing winter moisture due to cloud seeding up wind as well as loosing our window of opportunity for HR burning because the NSW RFS has declared extended fire seasons.
Maybe the Chiefs need to do what ScoMo is doing. Get out and listen to the people who are affected.
They could start at Nowa Nowa.
We have learned naught from past history.
Let's tell the Burning Truth
They could start at Nowa Nowa.
We have learned naught from past history.
Let's tell the Burning Truth
If you're not being sarcastic, then please don't make me vomit.
What prolapse said......
‘’YES IT. IS THE EFFING GREENS.’
’
The laborials are so concerned about green votes that they adopted their environmental policies.
1. Our local council refuses to allow the removal of dead killer trees because they say they are habitat trees for animals, at least until they burn. We have two outside our local fire station and we can’t remove them!
2. State governments are lazy know nothings whose inner city policy staff know SFA about the bush.
Example: Near me is a 23km long dirt road which is dotted with bush camping sites. It receives 90,000 visitors per year. It’s not unusual to have upwards of 5000 campers on a holiday long weekend.
The road is a dead end. The whole area is a fire trap - impossible to defend or attack a fire. Fire trucks will collide with idiots trying to flee if there is a fire. We have pleaded with state and local government to at least seal the road and build NSPs at regular intervals - no result.
3. The academics and officials are telling half truths. Yes, Fuel reduction burns probably don’t help in a catastrophic crowning fire. However you won’t get a catastrophic fire if you have removed most of the fuel in the first place.
4. There is no way you can afford permanent paid rural firefighters to cover any state. Victoria has 35,000 volunteers. Smothering even a small grassfire (400 acres) may take twenty tankers that need to be on scene within minutes.
5. Do the basic maths. The bush is ALWAYS going to burn. You get to choose when if you are lucky. You can choose low intensity fuel reduction burns or catastrophe - your choice.......and **** sydney and melbourne air quality concerns.
To put that in terms a greenie might understand, IF THERE IS NO FUEL ON THE FOREST FLOOR, YOU CANT GET A CATASTROPHIC FIRE!
If we don’t learn this lesson, the next big one is going to leave thousands dead.
‘’YES IT. IS THE EFFING GREENS.’
’
The laborials are so concerned about green votes that they adopted their environmental policies.
1. Our local council refuses to allow the removal of dead killer trees because they say they are habitat trees for animals, at least until they burn. We have two outside our local fire station and we can’t remove them!
2. State governments are lazy know nothings whose inner city policy staff know SFA about the bush.
Example: Near me is a 23km long dirt road which is dotted with bush camping sites. It receives 90,000 visitors per year. It’s not unusual to have upwards of 5000 campers on a holiday long weekend.
The road is a dead end. The whole area is a fire trap - impossible to defend or attack a fire. Fire trucks will collide with idiots trying to flee if there is a fire. We have pleaded with state and local government to at least seal the road and build NSPs at regular intervals - no result.
3. The academics and officials are telling half truths. Yes, Fuel reduction burns probably don’t help in a catastrophic crowning fire. However you won’t get a catastrophic fire if you have removed most of the fuel in the first place.
4. There is no way you can afford permanent paid rural firefighters to cover any state. Victoria has 35,000 volunteers. Smothering even a small grassfire (400 acres) may take twenty tankers that need to be on scene within minutes.
5. Do the basic maths. The bush is ALWAYS going to burn. You get to choose when if you are lucky. You can choose low intensity fuel reduction burns or catastrophe - your choice.......and **** sydney and melbourne air quality concerns.
To put that in terms a greenie might understand, IF THERE IS NO FUEL ON THE FOREST FLOOR, YOU CANT GET A CATASTROPHIC FIRE!
If we don’t learn this lesson, the next big one is going to leave thousands dead.
We can't afford permanent CFA or RFS paid personnel... no, but we can apparently afford to fly an aeroplane across the country empty on all but one sector for the sole purpose of transporting a certain Victorian Senator's a-se from SA (a State she doesn't represent) to WA (another State she doesn't represent) to attend a shooting expo - and this is just one of the instances we actually know about, we'll never know how much Nero's trip to Hawaii cost because it's been denied under FOI.
We can afford BILLIONS on a faulty combat aircraft (72 of them with another 28 planned to make it 100) that will never fire a shot in anger, submarines that will, likewise, never be used for what they're being purchased for.
[QUOTEIf you're not being sarcastic, then please don't make me vomit.][/QUOTE]
No just stating the facts.
Also brush up on who is responsible for emergency services. States!!!!!!
I don't here anyone having a go at the State Premiers for being a sleep at the wheel.
At least ScoMo had identified a flaw in the Commonwealth use of the Military in emergency situations and has proposed changes. Tidley squat from the States on this matter as it would take away some of their "responsibility"
No just stating the facts.
Also brush up on who is responsible for emergency services. States!!!!!!
I don't here anyone having a go at the State Premiers for being a sleep at the wheel.
Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk is taking a cruise as 45 bushfires burn in her state.
The Labor leader went on leave last week as bushfires threatened properties on the Sunshine Coast.
Two days after she took off on holiday, 60 homes were evacuated at Perigian Springs and Weyba Downs near Noosa.
The Labor leader went on leave last week as bushfires threatened properties on the Sunshine Coast.
Two days after she took off on holiday, 60 homes were evacuated at Perigian Springs and Weyba Downs near Noosa.
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No surprise then that the States are resisting a Federal Royal Commission.
Prior findings at previous inquiries and commissions have largely been ignored.
By whom and to what extent will be something the public needs to see, given the current narrative.
For example, the mismanagement of aerial assets by some State Authorities is well known.
Do not expect to hear about it here though as all contractors and personnel are forbidden to comment to media or on social media without prior authority approval.
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal...0200114-p53r9l
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/firefigh...into-bushfires
Prior findings at previous inquiries and commissions have largely been ignored.
By whom and to what extent will be something the public needs to see, given the current narrative.
For example, the mismanagement of aerial assets by some State Authorities is well known.
Do not expect to hear about it here though as all contractors and personnel are forbidden to comment to media or on social media without prior authority approval.
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal...0200114-p53r9l
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/firefigh...into-bushfires
For your benefit AerialPerspective - whilst the jets may fly empty, the crews are also undertaking training operating the aircraft at the same time. I don't hear anyone complaining about a C17 or KC30 operating empty to or from Amberley. I am also glad to here that you have a crystal ball and can state that the F35 and submarines will never be used in anger, must let me see that crystal ball for the Lotto numbers next week. Re your Nero comment, if indeed the PM used a KC30/F7x to Hawaii, can you confirm that the aircraft returned empty or if in the case of the KC30, that it did not operate ADF tasking after deplaning the PM?
I really thought this was an aviation related site, not name calling and political point scoring. For what it is worth we should all accept responsibility for the current predicament we are in. Many studies my climatologists/fire experts have identified an increasing intensity and speed of our bushfires. These studies have been forwarded to Governments both Federal and State and both parties as well as the various state authorities - the same ones that are now saying we told you so. these studies were all ignored. The ex state fire commissioners had more than enough opportunity to enact the required effort to correct poor management of our state and crown land, but again did little or nothing. Before anyone calls me a climate change non-believer, I do believe in climate change; however, I do not accept we started it - we have certainly not helped the climate since industrialisation, but we did not start it. I also agree that we cannot blame the current Green Party to halting reduction burning; however, I believe that their mantra over the years - conservation, conservation, conservation etc has made many jurisdictions reluctant to burn. Perhaps they are more concerned about attracting more residents to their shires and attract rates etc. In all the name calling and blame game, I have not once heard anyone refer to the experts in land management and reduction burning - our indigenous peoples. They are certainly laughing at us watching us act like little school children who lost the cricket game. How about we all stop name calling and cheap point scoring and accept responsibility for what has occurred and get together to map out a way ahead. This is Australia not some second rate state.
Rant over and now back to aviation.
Rant over and now back to aviation.
I have not once heard anyone refer to the experts in land management and reduction burning - our indigenous peoples.
Back in the 50s I was taught that the country was burnt to "muster" animals for food and to also entice animals to feed on the new growth when it rained after a burn. This enabled easier hunting.
Or was I taught an urban myth?
I would still prefer a fleet of CL515, even though we may have to wait. We could also manufacturer then in OZ. Just re-open the old GAF!!
For your benefit AerialPerspective - whilst the jets may fly empty, the crews are also undertaking training operating the aircraft at the same time. I don't hear anyone complaining about a C17 or KC30 operating empty to or from Amberley. I am also glad to here that you have a crystal ball and can state that the F35 and submarines will never be used in anger, must let me see that crystal ball for the Lotto numbers next week. Re your Nero comment, if indeed the PM used a KC30/F7x to Hawaii, can you confirm that the aircraft returned empty or if in the case of the KC30, that it did not operate ADF tasking after deplaning the PM?
And, please don't make me laugh. So, you think it's OK to spend $40K of taxpayers money for a useless politician to fly one sector of three to attend a personal event, not government related and not even in the state which she is a Senator from??? On the same day, Matthias Cormann flew economy class on a normal commercial flight but that wasn't good enough for the former sports rorts minister. Or perhaps you prefer Cormann to accidentally forget to pay for his ticket.
No just stating the facts.
Also brush up on who is responsible for emergency services. States!!!!!!
I don't here anyone having a go at the State Premiers for being a sleep at the wheel.
At least ScoMo had identified a flaw in the Commonwealth use of the Military in emergency situations and has proposed changes. Tidley squat from the States on this matter as it would take away some of their "responsibility"[/QUOTE]
Yeh. I've heard that apologist BS about ScoMo... when the Japanese bombed Darwin, did Curtin go for a ski holiday to New Zealand???
No one cares if it's a State responsibility, I'm fully aware of that, but he's supposed to be a national leader... someone who eviscerated Christine Nixon for going out to dinner during a bushfire in Melbourne 10 or so years ago. I don't care what the QLD Premier did, she goes on the list of so-called leaders abandoning the place when it's burning... that's your defence is it? It's OK for ScoMo to do it because someone else did too? Oh, silly me.
Don't be such an apologist. How about you do your research, this bloke is not a leader's a-sehole... he got the preselection by spreading BS about the incumbent Member for Cook, he has spewed BS since he entered parliament and has no idea what leadership is about. At this point I'd rather have Tony Abbott and that's saying something.
Also brush up on who is responsible for emergency services. States!!!!!!
I don't here anyone having a go at the State Premiers for being a sleep at the wheel.
At least ScoMo had identified a flaw in the Commonwealth use of the Military in emergency situations and has proposed changes. Tidley squat from the States on this matter as it would take away some of their "responsibility"[/QUOTE]
Yeh. I've heard that apologist BS about ScoMo... when the Japanese bombed Darwin, did Curtin go for a ski holiday to New Zealand???
No one cares if it's a State responsibility, I'm fully aware of that, but he's supposed to be a national leader... someone who eviscerated Christine Nixon for going out to dinner during a bushfire in Melbourne 10 or so years ago. I don't care what the QLD Premier did, she goes on the list of so-called leaders abandoning the place when it's burning... that's your defence is it? It's OK for ScoMo to do it because someone else did too? Oh, silly me.
Don't be such an apologist. How about you do your research, this bloke is not a leader's a-sehole... he got the preselection by spreading BS about the incumbent Member for Cook, he has spewed BS since he entered parliament and has no idea what leadership is about. At this point I'd rather have Tony Abbott and that's saying something.
I really thought this was an aviation related site, not name calling and political point scoring. For what it is worth we should all accept responsibility for the current predicament we are in. Many studies my climatologists/fire experts have identified an increasing intensity and speed of our bushfires. These studies have been forwarded to Governments both Federal and State and both parties as well as the various state authorities - the same ones that are now saying we told you so. these studies were all ignored. The ex state fire commissioners had more than enough opportunity to enact the required effort to correct poor management of our state and crown land, but again did little or nothing. Before anyone calls me a climate change non-believer, I do believe in climate change; however, I do not accept we started it - we have certainly not helped the climate since industrialisation, but we did not start it. I also agree that we cannot blame the current Green Party to halting reduction burning; however, I believe that their mantra over the years - conservation, conservation, conservation etc has made many jurisdictions reluctant to burn. Perhaps they are more concerned about attracting more residents to their shires and attract rates etc. In all the name calling and blame game, I have not once heard anyone refer to the experts in land management and reduction burning - our indigenous peoples. They are certainly laughing at us watching us act like little school children who lost the cricket game. How about we all stop name calling and cheap point scoring and accept responsibility for what has occurred and get together to map out a way ahead. This is Australia not some second rate state.
Rant over and now back to aviation.
Rant over and now back to aviation.
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"A fleet of up to 43 F-111s including spare airframes were in the service of the RAAF for 37 years and never fired a shot in any conflict."
One of the reasons they never fired a shot is we had them.
Called a deterrent.
"6 Collin's Class submarines, how many times have they been deployed in a war zone???"
Likely you will never know.
One of the reasons they never fired a shot is we had them.
Called a deterrent.
"6 Collin's Class submarines, how many times have they been deployed in a war zone???"
Likely you will never know.