Ozzies can’t fly when it’s windy?
Too many F/O's that I fly with treat it as a fly by numbers exercise by applying X amount of rudder with Y amount of aileron rather than look out the window and modify their control inputs to keep it tracking along the centreline.
Agree 73qanda, the why is the training system that considers a cross wind landing a risk to the operation. On the Airbus it is also spreading to the use of manual thrust for landing where most pilots are actually apprehensive to turn the thing off. Certain aspects of flying require constant practice to a) get good at it in the first place and b) maintain that skill. It works for the training system to teach new pilots to fly by sim numbers. The assumption must be that by the time you reach the LHS you have attained the necessary skill through meditation and the ways of the Jedi.
Wow: Who knew that so many overseas airline crash fatalities were caused by crosswinds!
Surely ‘their’ should be something that can be done about that!
Surely ‘their’ should be something that can be done about that!
Now now, Bloggs: You’d vowed never to respond to my amateur nonsense.
As a matter of interest, how many landing have you done as PIC of an RPT aircraft into YSSY?
I’m happy to admit that I’ve done zero.
You?
As a matter of interest, how many landing have you done as PIC of an RPT aircraft into YSSY?
I’m happy to admit that I’ve done zero.
You?
That is my experience as well. I don’t think it’s their fault , they are the product of a training system that hammers the pilot out of them pretty quick if they let it. I would hazard a guess that around 50% of the younger pilots I fly with on the 737 are looking (at least momentarily) at their instruments while below 50ft on a normal landing. The question is why?
An eye opener when the next day I get the next young lad ex bush/prop/png guy who can’t get his eyes from out the window! Don’t forget to check your instruments matey!
One landed superb the other couldn’t even get centreline.
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Over several decades of 737 ops in Australia I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have landed in a crosswind exceeding 20 knots. Others may have seen worse. On the rare occasion I landed in a crosswind at aircraft limits, I was glad to have experienced it at 20 knots beforehand, so as to be confident in the technique.
My personal experience is that if you have experienced a few real crosswind landings at 20 knots, and pulled it off well, then you can now cope with 40 knots. The technique is the same, but the fear factor may affect you if you haven’t already perfected the 20 knot crosswind landing. Oh, and the Sim may be different.
So this leads me to the industry standard F/O limit of 20 knots.
If I was the CP, and didn’t have an insurance company telling me what I should or shouldn’t do, I would limit F/O’s by their experience, not their rank. For example, an F/O with X amount of sectors on type should not have restrictions on their environmental limits. Such an F/O will be a Captain soon, and should be practicing operating to that capacity under supervision.
I would much rather execute my first 40 knot crosswind landing as an F/O under supervision than as a new Captain with a newby in the RHS,
The current system sees to it that the latter will happen, sooner or later,
My personal experience is that if you have experienced a few real crosswind landings at 20 knots, and pulled it off well, then you can now cope with 40 knots. The technique is the same, but the fear factor may affect you if you haven’t already perfected the 20 knot crosswind landing. Oh, and the Sim may be different.
So this leads me to the industry standard F/O limit of 20 knots.
If I was the CP, and didn’t have an insurance company telling me what I should or shouldn’t do, I would limit F/O’s by their experience, not their rank. For example, an F/O with X amount of sectors on type should not have restrictions on their environmental limits. Such an F/O will be a Captain soon, and should be practicing operating to that capacity under supervision.
I would much rather execute my first 40 knot crosswind landing as an F/O under supervision than as a new Captain with a newby in the RHS,
The current system sees to it that the latter will happen, sooner or later,
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Sorry guys, I didn’t mean to start a discussion and then just leave the building.
Thanks to the gentleman who pointed out I’m not a native English speaker. I’m not, but clearly I’m not the only one with language issues.
On the day SYD could have been ops normal until midday or so. The airport is apparently managed poorly both inside and out. Immigration thinks there are only two nationalities in the world. Ozzies and Kiwis. I arrived with a nice express lane card in my hands. Picked the correct lane, or so I thought. The signs said Ozzies/Kiwis. A gentleman with a name that started with AL and who looked and spoke very much like somebody from the ME, pointed me to the other lane. The other lane was for Ozzies and Kiwis. All the lanes were for Ozzies and Kiwis.
Two lanes open. One manned by an angry gentleman who spent more time yelling «TURN OFF YOU PHONES», «CAN’T YOU READ THE SIGNS» than looking at passports. I took two steps to the right into a lane with a normal person behind the counter. Made it through without any problems, just a minor case of PTSD. Cured by lots of Scooners.
Love Barramundi, but it took a few tries.
Having a blast in Ozzieland!
Thanks to the gentleman who pointed out I’m not a native English speaker. I’m not, but clearly I’m not the only one with language issues.
On the day SYD could have been ops normal until midday or so. The airport is apparently managed poorly both inside and out. Immigration thinks there are only two nationalities in the world. Ozzies and Kiwis. I arrived with a nice express lane card in my hands. Picked the correct lane, or so I thought. The signs said Ozzies/Kiwis. A gentleman with a name that started with AL and who looked and spoke very much like somebody from the ME, pointed me to the other lane. The other lane was for Ozzies and Kiwis. All the lanes were for Ozzies and Kiwis.
Two lanes open. One manned by an angry gentleman who spent more time yelling «TURN OFF YOU PHONES», «CAN’T YOU READ THE SIGNS» than looking at passports. I took two steps to the right into a lane with a normal person behind the counter. Made it through without any problems, just a minor case of PTSD. Cured by lots of Scooners.
Love Barramundi, but it took a few tries.
Having a blast in Ozzieland!
This guy MAS is well known on other forums for lousy attitude and thick posts. MAS, it's not nice to generalise... especially with your background. In my experience flying overseas the malaysians were some of the laziest, least skilled drivers but with some of the biggest attitudes. Xenophobes. One of their favourite things is to moan about Aus. The next favourite is to try to immigrate in! I hope you're only here on a crew duty, not sleazing your way in like those a/hole mates of yours deported to KL a few weeks ago after getting caught cheating the visa system. Sorry you didn't get the bites you hoped for but thanks for inadvertently triggering a constructive discussion "lah".
PS: with MAS's safety record in recent times you'd be the last one pointing fingers about anything aviation.
PPS: on your way out remember to get a clearance before diverting around weather.
PS: with MAS's safety record in recent times you'd be the last one pointing fingers about anything aviation.
PPS: on your way out remember to get a clearance before diverting around weather.
This guy MAS is well known on other forums for lousy attitude and thick posts. MAS, it's not nice to generalise... especially with your background. In my experience flying overseas the malaysians were some of the laziest, least skilled drivers but with some of the biggest attitudes. Xenophobes. One of their favourite things is to moan about Aus. The next favourite is to try to immigrate in! I hope you're only here on a crew duty, not sleazing your way in like those a/hole mates of yours deported to KL a few weeks ago after getting caught cheating the visa system. Sorry you didn't get the bites you hoped for but thanks for inadvertently triggering a constructive discussion "lah".
PS: with MAS's safety record in recent times you'd be the last one pointing fingers about anything aviation.
PPS: on your way out remember to get a clearance before diverting around weather.
PS: with MAS's safety record in recent times you'd be the last one pointing fingers about anything aviation.
PPS: on your way out remember to get a clearance before diverting around weather.
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This guy MAS is well known on other forums for lousy attitude and thick posts. MAS, it's not nice to generalise... especially with your background. In my experience flying overseas the malaysians were some of the laziest, least skilled drivers but with some of the biggest attitudes. Xenophobes. One of their favourite things is to moan about Aus. The next favourite is to try to immigrate in! I hope you're only here on a crew duty, not sleazing your way in like those a/hole mates of yours deported to KL a few weeks ago after getting caught cheating the visa system. Sorry you didn't get the bites you hoped for but thanks for inadvertently triggering a constructive discussion "lah".
PS: with MAS's safety record in recent times you'd be the last one pointing fingers about anything aviation.
PPS: on your way out remember to get a clearance before diverting around weather.
PS: with MAS's safety record in recent times you'd be the last one pointing fingers about anything aviation.
PPS: on your way out remember to get a clearance before diverting around weather.
The world is full of Ozzies who can’t find work in Australia. The attitude you show is something they often bring with them when they leave Australia. It’s called rasism. It’s not pretty.
Thanks to VA and QF who found a seat for me on my domestic travel here in Australia. I’m amazed the flights are so full with so many companies who operate the same sectors!
Aha, now we're playing the racism card.
Isn't this just a bit rich coming from a son of a country that in 1971 introduced it's New Economic Policy which in effect favoured employing Bumiputeras over Chinese and Indian residents. Isn't this discrimination against the latter two groups, arguably far more hard-working and competent, a form of institutionalized racism (against your own citizens)?
Isn't this just a bit rich coming from a son of a country that in 1971 introduced it's New Economic Policy which in effect favoured employing Bumiputeras over Chinese and Indian residents. Isn't this discrimination against the latter two groups, arguably far more hard-working and competent, a form of institutionalized racism (against your own citizens)?
Aha, now we're playing the racism card.
Isn't this just a bit rich coming from a son of a country that in 1971 introduced it's New Economic Policy which in effect favoured employing Bumiputeras over Chinese and Indian residents. Isn't this discrimination against the latter two groups, arguably far more hard-working and competent, a form of institutionalized racism (against your own citizens)?
Isn't this just a bit rich coming from a son of a country that in 1971 introduced it's New Economic Policy which in effect favoured employing Bumiputeras over Chinese and Indian residents. Isn't this discrimination against the latter two groups, arguably far more hard-working and competent, a form of institutionalized racism (against your own citizens)?
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Yes, it’s pointless discussion, It’s weird when people I don’t know think they know everything about me. How do they know if I’m a Bumi, Chinese, Indian or orang putih?
Still waiting to find out what my background is.
Maybe it’s time to close this thread.
I love the way you guys annonuce the flight time to be approximately 1 hour and 32 minutes! 👍 Outstanding!
How do they know if I’m a Bumi, Chinese, Indian or orang putih?
But you're the one who played the inevitable fall-back position, the racist card, when facing criticism. Having flown/worked in Asia for many years, it's readily apparent the the greatest racists on the planet are Asians - towards other Asians.
Nothing to do with the thread I agree.
Last edited by Dora-9; 2nd Aug 2019 at 22:03.
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ATC dislike having aircraft holding as much as flight crew and passengers. Simply put, it means an extra aircraft in an en route or TMA controllers airspace that doesn't need to be there. But, just as I can't knock on the cockpit door and get a jump seat ride mid flight because it is against the rules, a controller can't nominate a runway with cross wind greater than 20kts, separate aircraft by less than 5 / 3 / 2.5 nm or have less than 500 / 1000 / 2000 / 3000 ft vertically between aircraft because it is against the rules. I have no doubt that aircraft and flight crew cross wind limitations are greater than those imposed by the rules. The rules aren't necessarily right or up to date and the system may well be broken, but the guys and girls on the other end of the microphone are doing their best within the constraints of the system. As has been stated, lobby CASA for rule changes (specifically MOS Part 172 10.3.1.1 for runway nomination and cross and tail wind components).
Last edited by Mhayli; 4th Aug 2019 at 10:38. Reason: typo
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ATC dislike having aircraft holding as much as flight crew and passengers. Simply put, it means an extra aircraft in an en route or TMA controllers airspace that doesn't need to be there. But, just as I can't knock on the cockpit door and get a jump seat ride mid flight because it is against the rules, a controller can't nominate a runway with cross wind greater than 20kts, separate aircraft by less than 5 / 3 / 2.5 nm or have less than 500 / 1000 / 2000 / 3000 ft vertically between aircraft because it is against the rules. I have no doubt that aircraft and flight crew cross wind limitations are greater than those imposed by the rules. The rules aren't necessarily right or up to date and the system may well be broken, but the guys and girls on the other end of the microphone are doing their best within the constraints of the system. As has been stated, lobby CASA for rule changes (specifically MOS Part 172 10.3.1.1 for runway nomination and cross and tail wind components).
A clear case of the tail wagging the dog, but if it’s fair dinkum, carry on with your wind straight down the runway landings.
20 kts is a joke.
Last edited by ManaAdaSystem; 6th Aug 2019 at 11:41.
“A clear case of the dog wagging the tail”?