PPRuNe Forums - Ozzies can’t fly when it’s windy?

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- - Ozzies can’t fly when it’s windy? (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/623491-ozzies-can-t-fly-when-s-windy.html)

ManaAdaSystem

12th Jul 2019 20:08

Ozzies can’t fly when it’s windy?

What’s going on? Canselling MEL and CBR because it may get windy?
17 kts is too much?
Weird way of doing things.

DHC4driver

12th Jul 2019 20:11

Yeah, it’s most certainly the pilots who make the decision to CANSEL the sectors.... 🙄

maggot

12th Jul 2019 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManaAdaSystem (Post 10517168)

What’s going on? Canselling MEL and CBR because it may get windy?
17 kts is too much?
Weird way of doing things.

At the risk of canning your hyperbole there is significant delays developing in Syd already this morning due to the capacity reductions associated with single runway - it was over 30 a short time ago and they're onto 25

Ragnor

12th Jul 2019 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManaAdaSystem (Post 10517168)

What’s going on? Canselling MEL and CBR because it may get windy?
17 kts is too much?
Weird way of doing things.

I would agree little weather phenomena and OZ ATC melt down. Only 24kts crosswind on the parallels on current ATIS

ManaAdaSystem

12th Jul 2019 21:54

Why single runway ops?
And why only MEL and CBR (and the odd Gold Coast) flights?

turbantime

12th Jul 2019 21:59

Single runway due to strong westerlies which means only the one east/west runway can be used and not the two north/south runways.

With capacity reductions in force, it’s up to the airlines to decide which services will be cancelled. Normally you would see Mel and the like canned due to the number of flights available during the day to recover pax.

ManaAdaSystem

12th Jul 2019 23:09

So they use single runway based on the forecasted and not the actual wind?
Wind has not been above 20 kts the whole morning. I love being proactive, but this is plain stupid.

turbantime

12th Jul 2019 23:34

Whatever man, go whinge on a frequent flyers forum.

C441	13th Jul 2019 00:20

Quote:

Ozzies can’t fly when it’s windy? What’s going on? Canselling MEL and CBR because it may get windy?

But hopefully they can spell a primary word in their post! :rolleyes:

Caedus

13th Jul 2019 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10517331)

But hopefully they can spell a primary word in their post! :rolleyes:

Given his username relates to Malaysian Airlines, I'd hazard a guess OP is from that part of the world and english is not particularly hot there. What his beef is with the intricacies of how things work over here though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

cLeArIcE

13th Jul 2019 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManaAdaSystem (Post 10517291)

So they use single runway based on the forecasted and not the actual wind?
Wind has not been above 20 kts the whole morning. I love being proactive, but this is plain stupid.

ATC would have looked at the forecast last night and decided under those conditions (single runway ops in Sydney) we can facilitate XXX number of movements. They then would of gone to the airlines and said "hey instead if the 80 slots (a made up number) in Sydney you normally get, you can only have 50. The airlines work it out from there.
Considering how long the ground delays can be just trying to get to RWY 25, I can only imagine the chaos if they didn't cancel flights.
It sucks your plans probably got altered but, it is what it is. You do understand that we don't enjoy it too? How many crews are going to get home hours late or over night in some other city despite the the plans they had with families etc. Probably plenty of controllers working hard and doing over time to (eventually) get you where you are going safely.
(they were probably doing that anyway though :E)

das Uber Soldat

13th Jul 2019 01:52

They really do move to 25/07 far too early. Anything up to 30kts should be 16/34. Beyond that ok fine, but I can't think of a single transport category aircraft that can't land in 30 kts. So instead I get to drill holes in the sky over Boree whilst we operate our biggest airport at hobbled capacity.

@$!#

Don't even start me on SODPROPS on a weekend just to tick a box.

Capt Fathom

13th Jul 2019 02:25

I'd imagine landing on 16R with a 30kt sou'wester would be quite sporting! :ouch:

neville_nobody

13th Jul 2019 02:26

Back in the day they would allow you to land on 16 if you requested it and the problem used to solve it self. Now by taking away decision making from the PIC they have created a bigger problem

GreenGhost39

13th Jul 2019 03:37

10.3.1 Selection of Runway in Use

10.3.1.1 Use of other than nominated runways. Controllers must not nominate a particular runway for use if an alternative runway is available, when:

(a) for runway conditions that are completely dry:

(i) the cross-wind component, including gusts, exceeds 20 KT;

(ii) the downwind component, including gusts, exceeds 5 KT.

(b) for runway conditions that are not completely dry;

(i) the cross-wind component, including gusts, exceeds 20 KT;

(ii) there is a downwind component.

gordonfvckingramsay

13th Jul 2019 09:16

Aaaah Sydney. It’s annoying that it’s too dangerous to land in a moderate crosswind there but landing at max elsewhere is ok. It should be up to the PIC.

Colonel_Klink

13th Jul 2019 09:26

However going into Melbourne late at night it’s not uncommon to be landing with 20kts crosswind and 5kts tail wind on a 2300m runway because they are only using 34 for departures NE....🙄

Having said all that - I acknowledge that the arrival rates are determined the evening prior based on a forecast, so essentially the damage is done then.

It wasn’t uncommon to see 120 minute COBT delays today - not fun for anyone.

Lead Balloon

13th Jul 2019 09:33

Two words:

1. Politics.

2. Money (to the extent that politics don't equal money).

Sorry, I meant one word: Safety.

donkey767

13th Jul 2019 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink (Post 10517569)

However going into Melbourne late at night it’s not uncommon to be landing with 20kts crosswind and 5kts tail wind on a 2300m runway because they are only using 34 for departures NE....🙄

Exactly the situation last night - 30min airborne delays around 8pm because they were running RW27 only when the wind was around 15kts from the north west. But hey, it’s world’s best practice in Australia, right?

On another note... anyone on here have any info why MEL is the only airport in Aus that seems to change their ATIS every 5-10min most days?

ESP eclipse II

13th Jul 2019 11:25

[QUOTE]Exactly the situation last night - 30min airborne delays around 8pm because they were running RW27 only when the wind was around 15kts from the north west. But hey, it’s world’s best practice in Australia, right?

On another note... anyone on here have any info why MEL is the only airport in Aus that seems to change their ATIS every 5-10min most days?/QUOTE]

The large amount of ATIS changes is dictated by the Tower controllers and only by the Tower controllers. I suspect most of it is purely about "a-se" covering if something were to occur! Melbourne definitely holds a unique place in the world of aviation controlling on a few fronts.

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