Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Ozzies canít fly when itís windy?

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Ozzies canít fly when itís windy?

Old 15th Jul 2019, 21:34
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 55
Posts: 1,545
Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
With the general lowering of basic flying skills, lower cross wind limits is probably a good idea in case some automation dependent child of the magenta line gets put into a situation which exceeds his capabilities. Some people struggle with 10kts of cross wind let alone 20kts.
Some people should not be professional pilots.
Tankengine is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2019, 23:40
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Equatorial
Age: 46
Posts: 382
Krismiler has nailed it!
Global Aviator is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2019, 23:59
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 545
16L for departures?

I am surprised there is not greater use of 16L for departures when there's a howling sou-wester blowing. Other than getting across 25, departures off 16L do not physically conflict with 25.
I'm sure most pilots would agree that a gusty 30 knot crosswind on take-off is considerable easier to manage than on landing.
C441 is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 01:14
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Aus
Age: 27
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
With the general lowering of basic flying skills, lower cross wind limits is probably a good idea in case some automation dependent child of the magenta line gets put into a situation which exceeds THEIR capabilities. Some people struggle with 10kts of cross wind let alone 20kts.
Spare me.

No one checked to line by an RPT operator in Australia can't land at the crosswind limit of their aircraft.
junior.VH-LFA is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 03:12
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 41
Then I would guess that you haven't flown with a narrow body F/O with 300 total flying hours.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 03:25
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oz
Age: 44
Posts: 63
I'm quite enjoying this discussion, however there's two scenarios at play here I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. The airlines and airservices have their planning hookup the night before, and based on the forecast, plan for 25 only ops at Sydney. The airlines go and manage their schedules from there. I think that's how it happens.

Now, the two options are to do this, or in the morning some time when the winds aren't as bad as forecast, ATC says 'Let's use the parallels now' and off they go. Would the airlines then get all angry because they have already cancelled flights, bumped pax, moved crews, managed airframes etc.based on the predicted use of 25 only?

Can anyone actually win in this situation? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Showa Cho is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 03:43
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 63
Posts: 114
The mob I work for does simulator training for 40 knot crosswind, Captain only. Low time F/Os are not a problem. They will just have to sit there and clench their teeth. Heathrow gets on just fine with 2 parallels.
George Glass is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 04:08
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 891
QF 737 F/O's are trained to 40knots in the Sim.
Derfred is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 04:46
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Gafa
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by George Glass View Post
Heathrow gets on just fine with 2 parallels.
Funnily enough if SYD only had the parallels weíd never have the 07/25 issue!
Maggie Island is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 06:41
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 2,662
Originally Posted by George Glass View Post
... It fails in its primary mission of moving people from point A to B. It is at its absolute limit now and unless something radical is done soon its all downhill from here.
This is where you’re going wrong and why you’re so frustrated.

The primary mission of the system in Australia is to generate revenue for Airservices and generate profit for the owners of the airports. There is no financial incentive for Airservices or the airport owners to run it any differently, or to instal the runways or technology or to pushback on the politically-determined runway allocations at Sydney, so that the not unusual weather phenomena called “fog” and “wind” wouldn’t throw almost the entirety of the airways into chronic delay.

The frustration of and costs to punters is a mere externality and of little relevance when they continue to line up - sheep like - to pay for more.

Rated De nailed it @ #54.



Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 07:02
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by Derfred View Post
QF 737 F/O's are trained to 40knots in the Sim.
And then only be allowed to operate to 20kts in the aircraft....
Sparrows. is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 07:06
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 7,734
Originally Posted by Full Opp Rudder
Footage reportedly taken last Saturday. Good test of co-ordination skills with a satisfactory result ...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-...n-way/11307568
Wires, pulleys and bellcranks=poetry in motion!
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 07:27
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 63
Posts: 114
Lead Balloon, you are, of course, absolutely correct. What was I thinking........
George Glass is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 09:59
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Equatorial
Age: 46
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by Sparrows. View Post


And then only be allowed to operate to 20kts in the aircraft....
However should they face a very unlikely pilot incap and a 40kt XWind.......
Global Aviator is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 11:07
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
Posts: 946
Originally Posted by Global Aviator View Post


However should they face a very unlikely pilot incap and a 40kt XWind.......
It's incredibly dumb policy, the first jet limits xwind they'll do (most likely) they'll be the captain.
maggot is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 21:27
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Nz
Posts: 266
It is a dumb policy and leads to F/O’s thinking that there is something tricky about any crosswind above 20kts.
73qanda is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 22:42
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... Still!
Posts: 3,304
Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
Wires, pulleys and bellcranks=poetry in motion!
Poetry in motion? More like a bush ballad!
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 23:14
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by 73qanda View Post
It is a dumb policy and leads to F/Oís thinking that there is something tricky about any crosswind above 20kts.
JQ Cadets even get an extra 50%. 30kt limited a year after checked to line. Most of the time with less than 1000hr TT, yes TT, not time on type.
Sparrows. is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 03:42
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 1,272
To be fair, they are flying an Airbus
Transition Layer is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 04:59
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 1,530
Originally Posted by Transition Layer View Post
To be fair, they are flying an Airbus
Exactly! Theyíre a bitch to land in a crosswind. Nearly 4,000hrs on them and I still canít quite get it right every time.
morno is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.