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Qantas Group A321XLR order

Old 19th Jun 2019, 03:36
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Qantas Group A321XLR order

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Old 19th Jun 2019, 03:44
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Where exactly are they putting all these aircraft. Jetstar only has 60 to this day, in which probably half will see out next decade.

Either a Jetconnect fleet replacement or mainline.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 03:44
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Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE View Post
Where’s the media beat up and associated fanfare? Quite disappointing.

To be flown by Jetstar Asia, Jetstar Pacific, Jetstar Japan or Jetstar Playschool and whoever else is cheaper than us expensive Aussies.

No way is it coming to Mainline at least initially. Made for JQ’s medium haul Asian presence and a replacement for the 787

BTW there are over 100 A320’s in the JQ group = the simple answer is probably the most likely








Last edited by crosscutter; 19th Jun 2019 at 04:09.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 04:24
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Originally Posted by wheels_down View Post
Where exactly are they putting all these aircraft. Jetstar only has 60 to this day, in which probably half will see out next decade.

Either a Jetconnect fleet replacement or mainline.
Gareth Evans has already highlighted Cairns-Japan as potential A321XLR routes prior to todays formal announcement as well as Cairns-Tokyo being mentioned in the press release.

36 airframes should see multiple group entities receive the type

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...a-japa-458638/
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 05:06
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Rated de will be happy!
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 05:23
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AJ said they are not going to 3K/BL/GK

They are sourcing their own aircraft.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 05:27
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You fell for it.
It’s just an addition of 10 Aircraft to an old order for Jetstar for 99 Aircraft from Airbus.
From Fairfax news.

Mr Joyce made the comments after the airline said it had increased it had added 10 planes to its order from Airbus, to 109 aircraft.

Qantas has also changed the mix of the order, which will now include as many as 36 Airbus A321 XLRs. These planes are longer and slimmer and can fly further.

Qantas will take delivery of some of the new Airbus planes next year and the year after, though the XLRs will not be delivered until 2024.

The order included significant flexibility for the airline to adjust delivery schedules depending on market conditions, the company said.

The new planes were ordered as part of the airline's ongoing fleet renewal.

Mr Joyce said the new planes, in particular the A321 XLRs, were a great opportunity for the airline's low-cost carrier Jetstar, although they may also be used in the Qantas fleet.


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Old 19th Jun 2019, 05:55
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I don’t think anyone fell for anything. AJ lips were moving.

When it comes down to aircraft purchases and leases, like fuel purchases, it is naive to say the Jetstar subsidiaries are going to ‘source their own’. More correct would be because of the different ownership structures, the percentage of lease/ownership payments owed by the various stakeholders is yet to be determined.

If these options are the cheapest going around, and the best allocation of capital is to Japan, Vietnam or Singapore then don’t kid yourself that the subsidiaries won’t get them.

The difference between 5 years ago and in 5 years time is that both the JQ and QF businesses will be mature. The Mainline 330’s will need to be replaced and based on a low cost carriers requirement for new a/c to make the business case work (less Maint and greater fuel efficiency) it’s still more likely the 787’s will be transferred to Mainline rather than visions of further JQ growth. Hell...JQI need to prove a ROIC first and that’s been tough even with big brother help. Both sides of the business will be fighting for the capital.


Last edited by crosscutter; 19th Jun 2019 at 06:16.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 06:08
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Nothing is going to Vietnam. VN runs that joint and VN recently upgraded the fleet to sharklets. QF is just window dressing up there.

Jetstar has long given up in Singapore. Scoot next year will be x5 times of it. Its the Tiger Australia of Singapore.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 06:20
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Meanwhile Jetstar falls from 46th to to 53rd in Skytrax ratings. Why anybody wants to fly for 8 hours plus in a narrow body is a mystery. If I treated my Labrador like that idea get a visit from the RSPCA.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 06:39
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Originally Posted by crosscutter View Post
No way is it coming to Mainline at least initially. Made for JQs medium haul Asian presence and a replacement for the 787
A321LRs can do most of JQ long haul bar Hawaii. The 787s are then sent to mainline ala the ex JQ 330s that did the same thing for things like Asia and high density short haul domestic.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 06:44
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By 2024, the oldest 738's will be 23 years old..considering the amount of MEL's/ hold items they have at the moment (yes, I do know what's happening industrially), hopefully a fleet replacement will be sorted by then..but probably not, considering how many aircraft they have ordered for Mainline in the last 10 years...
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:55
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It only seems like yesterday when Abeles bought the first A320 family aircraft for Oz & had to get "his mate" to change some rules so it could do SYD-PER!
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 08:16
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you mean that a#@e wipe that kicked the bucket the other day???
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 10:06
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Originally Posted by Gear in transit View Post
Rated de will be happy!
Quite.

It makes sense. As we debate the merit of this business, it is clear that Mr Evans telegraphed that the CASK margin was narrowing and as such taking a narrow body is one solution to that problem. The caveat the aircraft deliver the operating cost savings.

Boston Bruce sought the B788 because he asked for them. The A330 was due scheduled maintenance and the B788 is likely too. Best to hand them back, as cheap as they were and keep pretending. Boston Bruce could not make money long haul, nor can the B788. That Boston Bruce told Little Napoleon of the reality of 'mission creep' is part the reason why he was dispatched.
Now, clearly Fossil Leigh Clifford was just as wrong about the QSA 1992 limiting their aircraft purchases as he is wrong about most everything else.

Little Napoleon did actually order something.

Now he can use his 'project Bananarama, secret squirrel team' to evaluate and re-equip QF International. Doing so nearly halves their fuel included CASK, improves efficiency and generates less CO2. Better late than never, but even this low hanging fruit Little Napoleon can reach.

Last edited by Rated De; 19th Jun 2019 at 10:59.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 10:38
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As the saying goes, past behavior is a good indicator for future behavior, so I'm calling it now, the future of the Qantas Group will most likely be as follows:

- JQ B787s to mainline (how they'll configure them will be interesting)
- 321XLRs to JQ
- A350-1000ULR for Sunrise and maybe (a strong maybe) some A359 sister aircraft
- CASA to approve EDTO 330 for B787s before B747 retirement
- More 787 orders by next year
- B737s, A330s and A380s to stick around well into the 2030s barring maybe the oldest B737s
- By then we'll know for sure what the B737, A330 and A380 replacements will be. My guess would be B737 MAX as B738 replacements once the dust settles down, either more A350s or the B777X for A380 replacement, more B787 for A330 replacement

As far as Network is concerned, maybe they'll take on some more of JQs A320s as JQ take on more deliveries and eventually the contract with Cobham won't be renewed the next time round. When the F100s will be phased out is anyone's guess at this stage, but Network could eventually become an all A320 outfit.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 10:46
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Unfortunately the network guys will be getting a bit brazen soon. So the company will need a another growth vehicle to leverage Network.

Skippers anyone?
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 12:32
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Originally Posted by Blueskymine View Post
Unfortunately the network guys will be getting a bit brazen soon. So the company will need a another growth vehicle to leverage Network.

Skippers anyone?
Yes and to do it a former Union President, now an IR negotiator is busily setting up the narrative for foreign pilots.
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 05:49
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Originally Posted by Don Diego View Post
you mean that a#@e wipe that kicked the bucket the other day???
Bit harsh on the wipes there...but yes, him.
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 05:59
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Originally Posted by f1yhigh View Post
As the saying goes, past behavior is a good indicator for future behavior, so I'm calling it now, the future of the Qantas Group will most likely be as follows:

- JQ B787s to mainline (how they'll configure them will be interesting)
- 321XLRs to JQ
So what you are saying is Qantas's premium customers get the old tired noisy aircraft, and the low cost airline gets the quiet brand new spankers (probably for free)?

The way they treat their customers, I really can't see why anyone flies with Qantas
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