Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

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Old 9th Jun 2019, 01:58
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by sms777 View Post
J3 is his nemesis....
I heard the top shelf at the supermarket is his though.....


Sorry, better get back to counting the rivets on the 320...
das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2019, 02:39
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aus
Age: 51
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by willadvise View Post
A little history for this one. Australia used to have MED1 and MED2 categories. If pilot called with a medical emergency we would simply put a MED1 in the label and the flight data record and you would get priority. A few years back they powers that be realised this was not consistent with ICAO so it was changed to MEDEVAC and HOSP categories. We continued to treat pilot declared medical emergencies as before by putting MEDEVAC in the flight data record and giving you priority. A little while latter the powers that be, came to release that this was not appropriate as it doesn't meet the definitions of a MEDEVAC flight so we were told that you have to get the pilots to call PAN before any priority could be given. We were told that this is how it happens in the rest of the world. This is where we are today. I had hoped that after a little while of "incidents" appearing in the news etc, and the bullshit of having to ask the "PAN declared checklist questions", that sanity would prevail and the airlines ask for it to be changed back to something sensible.

So Keith, I find you calling Australian ATC "the pedants society" offensive in the extreme. I don't get to choose which rules I comply with. Every thing I say, click on the computer, and write down is recorded and can be used against me. Can you please let me know which rules you disregard and which airline you fly for so I can avoid it in the future.

Regards
Will
Hi Will

Iím not sure if youíre serious or feigning indignation. I wasnít having a personal go at any one controller, I understand the rules are set far higher up than the coal face Ė so donít take the pedantís society comment personally, itís more of a go at the general nature of the ATC rules in Australia.

Anyhow, thank you for aptly confirming my assertion that in Australia, you cannot declare medical priority on airline operations without a pan call.

Donít worry, Iíll blithely comply with all the unique readback requirements (decend via star Ė for the 14th time, leaving FL xxx), and wear my high vis vest, have three points of contact while ascending or descending stairs, make sure my ASIC is not upside down, and all those other important rules that I donít know how other countries survive without...



Keith Myath is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2019, 04:15
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 1,572
Originally Posted by Keith Myath View Post
Hi Will

Iím not sure if youíre serious or feigning indignation. I wasnít having a personal go at any one controller, I understand the rules are set far higher up than the coal face Ė so donít take the pedantís society comment personally, itís more of a go at the general nature of the ATC rules in Australia.

Anyhow, thank you for aptly confirming my assertion that in Australia, you cannot declare medical priority on airline operations without a pan call.

Donít worry, Iíll blithely comply with all the unique readback requirements (decend via star Ė for the 14th time, leaving FL xxx), and wear my high vis vest, have three points of contact while ascending or descending stairs, make sure my ASIC is not upside down, and all those other important rules that I donít know how other countries survive without...
Still waiting for you to tell us why itís such a bad thing to be knowledgeable about what we do.
morno is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2019, 09:22
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Doomadgee
Posts: 372
Willadvise-

im sorry but I have to recount an incident that happened quite some years ago. I was flying to Sydney from Dubai, and overhead a singapore airlines flight call up and say in broken English that they have a passenger with a serious medical condition and that they request priority. The ATCer said ďare you declaring a med1 or Med2 ?Ē He had no idea what the hell that was and said, ďI donít know request priorityĒ Atc asked the same stupid thing again, he said ď donít know the passenger is having heart attackĒ I got on the radio and said ď he is declaring a Med 1Ē Atc then acknowledged the Med 1 and gave him priority. Myself and the 3 other crew were disgusted with the PENDANTIC attitude of the aussie controllers. I was embarrassed to be an aussie on that flight deck that day.
Capn Rex Havoc is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2019, 10:52
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 835
Why oh why, do we not have a “like” button?
In -some- defence of Aust ATC, they are actually existing inside the bizarre and 'super safe' world of Australia. If you live outside our wonderful country, be aware we have no direct neighbours, you are a mass murderer if you drive at 61KM/h (not miles) in a 60 zone, aren't allowed to drink at night, can't smoke in public places, must swim between flags, aren't allowed to have a swimming pool without military spec gates between a dwelling and the pool and amongst MANY other issues, you certainly aren't allowed to build a home near a tree (lest there be wind, leaves or fire).

If you exist in that environment, then simple practicalities of 'someone's having a heart attack' really strike at the heart of your very existence. Heresy such as that (in extreme circumstances admittedly) might lead to someone being allowed to cross the road without assistance or maybe have an extra sharp corner on their desk without a yellow sticker!

I find Australia obscenely left leaning and sooner or later will become a victim of it's own success in championing a safety industry hell bent on saving the last person on the planet from so much as a vicious paper cut.

If you think the pilots and ATC from the country are painful to deal with - ask yourself in light of my comments above why that may be the case.

I personally believe it's because Australia is just way too far away from any other country to realise how far away they are. Economically, it is going to hurt - sooner or later the truth will be brought home. In the mean time, I feel like I live in a bizarre freedom-less jail like environment where breathing suddenly may break some rule that will land me in a local lock up at Maj's pleasure.
V-Jet is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2019, 11:43
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
In -some- defence of Aust ATC, they are actually existing inside the bizarre and 'super safe' world of Australia. If you live outside our wonderful country, be aware we have no direct neighbours, you are a mass murderer if you drive at 61KM/h (not miles) in a 60 zone, aren't allowed to drink at night, can't smoke in public places, must swim between flags, aren't allowed to have a swimming pool without military spec gates between a dwelling and the pool and amongst MANY other issues, you certainly aren't allowed to build a home near a tree (lest there be wind, leaves or fire).

If you exist in that environment, then simple practicalities of 'someone's having a heart attack' really strike at the heart of your very existence. Heresy such as that (in extreme circumstances admittedly) might lead to someone being allowed to cross the road without assistance or maybe have an extra sharp corner on their desk without a yellow sticker!

I find Australia obscenely left leaning and sooner or later will become a victim of it's own success in championing a safety industry hell bent on saving the last person on the planet from so much as a vicious paper cut.

If you think the pilots and ATC from the country are painful to deal with - ask yourself in light of my comments above why that may be the case.

I personally believe it's because Australia is just way too far away from any other country to realise how far away they are. Economically, it is going to hurt - sooner or later the truth will be brought home. In the mean time, I feel like I live in a bizarre freedom-less jail like environment where breathing suddenly may break some rule that will land me in a local lock up at Maj's pleasure.
Spot on. This place is the nanny state through and through and is caught up in its own little bubble. Great country to live in, but they certainly know how to suck the fun out of life.
777Nine is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 02:23
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,058
Originally Posted by Keith Myath View Post
I understand the rules are set far higher up than the coal face Ė so donít take the pedantís society comment personally, itís more of a go at the general nature of the ATC rules in Australia.
FWIW the "rules" are actually almost all CASA's, specified in most cases in ATC documents word-for-word from the relevant CASA MOS.
CaptainMidnight is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 03:38
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 1,572
Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
In -some- defence of Aust ATC, they are actually existing inside the bizarre and 'super safe' world of Australia. If you live outside our wonderful country, be aware we have no direct neighbours, you are a mass murderer if you drive at 61KM/h (not miles) in a 60 zone, aren't allowed to drink at night, can't smoke in public places, must swim between flags, aren't allowed to have a swimming pool without military spec gates between a dwelling and the pool and amongst MANY other issues, you certainly aren't allowed to builde a home near a tree (lest there be wind, leaves or fire).

If you exist in that environment, then simple practicalities of 'someone's having a heart attack' really strike at the heart of your very existence. Heresy such as that (in extreme circumstances admittedly) might lead to someone being allowed to cross the road without assistance or maybe have an extra sharp corner on their desk without a yellow sticker!

I find Australia obscenely left leaning and sooner or later will become a victim of it's own success in championing a safety industry hell bent on saving the last person on the planet from so much as a vicious paper cut.

If you think the pilots and ATC from the country are painful to deal with - ask yourself in light of my comments above why that may be the case.

I personally believe it's because Australia is just way too far away from any other country to realise how far away they are. Economically, it is going to hurt - sooner or later the truth will be brought home. In the mean time, I feel like I live in a bizarre freedom-less jail like environment where breathing suddenly may break some rule that will land me in a local lock up at Maj's pleasure.
Ohh please . Iíve lived overseas and I can tell you that Iíd much rather be here than there. At least here my children can breath the air without fear of contracting respiratory problems. They can walk on the footpaths without the fear of being run over by a motorbike because they want to get around the traffic, and they can eat the food without having to worry about whether or not theyíll get food poisoning today.

Big picture people, big picture. If you want to go to the lawless, corrupt, dirty, backwards society that all our apparently inconvenient rules protect you from, I can send you the details.

In the meantime Iíll continue to be an Austronaut, because it keeps me from running into that hill over there.
morno is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 05:03
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 835
So you don't drink at night, always wear a hat and yellow vest outside, believe all motor vehicles must be speed limited to 30km/h, never planned to build a house near a tree and I suspect you've never tried to build a swimming pool. You are also very happy to rely on Captain 'Honorary Austranaut' Havoc being in Australian airspace near you if you have a medical issue whilst paxing on a non-aussie carrier

I'm about to write to CASA to suggest Captain 'Honorary Austranaut' Havoc must be available for ATC translation services on immediate contact to ALL non-Austranaut aircraft.

PS: Unsure of Austranaut spelling. I suspect AustrA would be correct, but please don't be offended, fine me or go all Alan Joyce on my Folau-like ass!
V-Jet is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 08:50
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Doomadgee
Posts: 372
VJET - I am definitely not in the Austranaut category,lol I didn't know what med 1 or 2 was either, ~I just felt sorry for the poor Sing crew and the dick ATCER who couldn't use a bit of flexibility and cut him some slack. But I am happy to provide my services for a very reasonable fee.
Capn Rex Havoc is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 09:53
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 835
Two comments:

Only the true messiah denies his divinity
and: If it IS a reasonable fee, you arenít giving the problem your full attention and certainly wonít get the job! Get AWU/ISO 9000 training certified and the sky is not the limit....

V-Jet is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2019, 12:34
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 678
So Keith, I find you calling Australian ATC "the pedants society" offensive in the extreme. I don't get to choose which rules I comply with. Every thing I say, click on the computer, and write down is recorded and can be used against me. Can you please let me know which rules you disregard and which airline you fly for so I can avoid it in the future.
Keith, Australian ATC is full of this type, unable to decipher a message from a pilot who's first language is not English. The common sense solution is to declare the medical emergency for the operation concerned, put it in the label and go to the flow. I was willing to defend my actions 'because it was recorded and could have been used against me'

In the end I couldn't stand this garbage and left.

Regarding his or her last sentence (sanctimonious crap) reply to them with:

'Let me know which sectors you control, I can then avoid them when I have a medical emergency and my passenger won't die because you're too worried about being nailed for not responding in the 'ICAO way'
The name is Porter is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2019, 09:26
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 835
I DO understand there are two sides to the story (legislative/industrial bullying is one piece of the puzzle) but I STILL can't find that Like button...
V-Jet is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2019, 02:25
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Southern Sun
Posts: 398
The answer is very obvious being there all the time: Boeing 747-800
Dark Knight is offline  

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