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Virgin Australia. Must have been one helluva Strategy meeting!!!!

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Virgin Australia. Must have been one helluva Strategy meeting!!!!

Old 24th May 2019, 02:30
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Berealgetreal View Post
More like Alliance livery.

Over in the engine room itís 10-12 hour 4 sector back to back days with absolute min rest on every overnight for years on end.

The red hot tip is the front end of a VAA NG isnít where youíll find the missing cash or any EBA efficiencies in the next round.

Been propping up the whole outfit and funding numerous hair brain ideas from day dot.
And now Qantas owns part of Alliance... you couldn't invent the stupidity of VA for a comical aviation version of 'The Office'... the airline is like a real life version of the movie 'Office Space'... "Now, if you could just GO AHEAD and come in on Saturday and screw the operation that w o u l d be g r e a t !!!"
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Old 24th May 2019, 02:35
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
I saw recently that Tiger Australia has a 'General Manager Customer Journey'. WTF is that? And why does such a small outfit have General Managers?
That'd be to study the 'Customer Touch Points'... seriously, the BS this company goes on with... including VA and their 'customer lens walk' - where a manager takes 30 minutes valuable time to walk the path taken by a passenger to look for 'service impediments'... or 'sub-optimal' whatever... call me old fashioned but what happened to putting people in management positions who bloodywell know what the hell they're managing and get on with it... instead rubbish and vacuous terms like 'customer journey management' are invented to make it look like people's jobs have a purpose. No doubt filled with aviation know-nothings and imposters who have an MBA.
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Old 24th May 2019, 03:19
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective View Post
That'd be to study the 'Customer Touch Points'... seriously, the BS this company goes on with... including VA and their 'customer lens walk' - where a manager takes 30 minutes valuable time to walk the path taken by a passenger to look for 'service impediments'... or 'sub-optimal' whatever... call me old fashioned but what happened to putting people in management positions who bloodywell know what the hell they're managing and get on with it... instead rubbish and vacuous terms like 'customer journey management' are invented to make it look like people's jobs have a purpose. No doubt filled with aviation know-nothings and imposters who have an MBA.
Actually, getting managers to experience the business exactly as customers experience it was once seen as a breakthrough methodology towards fixing the business right, smashing bureaucracy, and demolishing the head office ivory tower syndrome.

SAS Airlines was turned around in the early 80s by a guy called Jan Carlzon who later published his very simple approach in a slim volume entitled Moments of Truth, utilising ideas like this. Should be compulsory reading not just for aviation managers but for management in any business that serves customers.
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Old 24th May 2019, 12:37
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.amazon.com.au/Worst-Firs...KX2CX8Y23YM6CZ

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... try Gordon Berthune's model...
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Old 24th May 2019, 13:29
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Actually, getting managers to experience the business exactly as customers experience it was once seen as a breakthrough methodology towards fixing the business right, smashing bureaucracy, and demolishing the head office ivory tower syndrome.
Surely Tiger Australia, being such a small carrier, would by dent of its size have a small enough management team to know what was being inflicted on their passengers?
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Old 24th May 2019, 14:59
  #46 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
Surely Tiger Australia, being such a small carrier, would by dent of its size have a small enough management team to know what was being inflicted on their passengers?
They'd have to fly Tiger to know....
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Old 25th May 2019, 00:22
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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ďOver in the engine roomĒ and ďpropping up the whole outfitĒ and here in lies a big part of the problem.

Yes, there have been dumb ideas, plenty in fact, mostly generated by a dapper man of Southern European extraction and his bunch of mates who would refuse to actually tell him anything of value, particularly if it disagreed with his world view, and I for one am very happy that he gone, the quicker they dismantle the Macquarie place office and bring everything back into one spot the better.

That whole debacle has been a failure of the board from day one.

But this view that just because the 737 is the most plentiful machine in the fleet that it is the thing making money and everyone else is a leech upon the finances is just wrong, and leads to a sense that the 737 crews are hard done by.

The 737 is very effective on many routes but it isnít, with Virginís various and sometimes bizarre cost structure, the money tree that some think it is.

This joint has not made a lot of money for a long time. And as the biggest fleet, with the biggest pilot group, the largest maintenance requirements (overall not per machine) and the biggest fuel burn (again overall not individually) the 737 contributes to the losses in the bad times just as much as it contributes to the profits in the good times.

I respectfully suggest that each part of the business has a part to play, the pilots do not impact decisions such as how much to pay for leases or interior refurbs or additions such as wifi/internet/ife so if each pilot is operating their own airframe as efficiently and practically as possible then they are making their contribution to the success of the company. The fact that they fly an Airbus, 777, ATR, F100 or anything else does not diminish their personal contributions and to suggest that because the 737 is the biggest fleet and as a result deserves a better deal than the others is frankly insulting to the pilots flying on the other fleets.

That off my chest, I donít think (hope) your were suggesting that Berealgetreal but there are some that do.

And again all that said above, the 737 guys and gals are working their respective rings off and it cannot be sustained. People cannot keep up the pace indefinitely and people will (have) start to fall over. This does not seem to have been recognised and I think it is obvious to blind Freddy that the fleet needs more bodies.

But again the individual pilots cannot directly influence that. Sure there are various means of dropping the hint - sick leave, resignations, more militant industrial relations discussions, but at the end of the day the business has got to want to resource the fleet appropriately, and spreadsheets donít reflect the human toll, and I donít think they are there yet. BUT the new CEO does, apparently, have a history of focusing on the staff and their welfare and well being, much more so than someone else we knew, so there is hope.

but someone has to tell him in an appropriate way. 80-90 emails from captains to his suggestion box simply saying ďbusiness classĒ isnít it (though I agree with the sentiment!)




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Old 25th May 2019, 00:26
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
Surely Tiger Australia, being such a small carrier, would by dent of its size have a small enough management team to know what was being inflicted on their passengers?
No.... Management from Tiger are mostly all direct from Virgin in Brisbane... they no nothing about low cost carriers (some will allude to their glory days at Virgin Blue) and only what they know from Virgin...as you can imagine there is no one better to be steering the ship considering the resounding success story that has been VA....🤪...:. Didnít think it was possible to crash two cars at once with the same driver!
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Old 25th May 2019, 02:16
  #49 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Superman1 View Post


No.... Management from Tiger are mostly all direct from Virgin in Brisbane... they no nothing about low cost carriers (some will allude to their glory days at Virgin Blue) and only what they know from Virgin...as you can imagine there is no one better to be steering the ship considering the resounding success story that has been VA....🤪...:. Didnít think it was possible to crash two cars at once with the same driver!
The car park is full of QLD plates but in saying that, the ex Jetstar people are also doing a sterling job...
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Old 25th May 2019, 02:28
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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I think there is a diverse mix of airline backgrounds now at Tiger from what I have heard, and some very good people. The strategy comes from the top. The business will only be as good as the strategy it develops and how it executes it and the top has changed too many times.
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Old 25th May 2019, 09:08
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Kool aid promotions

The thinking inside the cult is that everyone will strive to become a Level 6 manager - apparently reserved for the CEO only. This of course is fine if you drink from the Kool aid, sing kum bah yah at every opportunity, and readily acknowledge every 'minority recognition day' that is held throughout the year.
If you tick all the above boxes, then you can easily move from say, sales one week, to operations support the next, then perhaps have a stab at engineering, then who knows, maybe become a pilot type? Or even the executive management level.

The days in this industry (and many others) where actual relevant experience to the job role is optional, and there is a cavalier approach - let's learn on the run, which of course never works, is why we see an operation like VA so poorly run and managed. Look at the financial results, look at the share price, and then you may have some idea of how much a basket case the business is.
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Old 26th May 2019, 04:33
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ifylofd View Post
The thinking inside the cult is that everyone will strive to become a Level 6 manager - apparently reserved for the CEO only. This of course is fine if you drink from the Kool aid, sing kum bah yah at every opportunity, and readily acknowledge every 'minority recognition day' that is held throughout the year.
If you tick all the above boxes, then you can easily move from say, sales one week, to operations support the next, then perhaps have a stab at engineering, then who knows, maybe become a pilot type? Or even the executive management level.

The days in this industry (and many others) where actual relevant experience to the job role is optional, and there is a cavalier approach - let's learn on the run, which of course never works, is why we see an operation like VA so poorly run and managed. Look at the financial results, look at the share price, and then you may have some idea of how much a basket case the business is.
Mate couldn't have said that any better myself, especially applies to the running disaster that is Tigers, a rudderless ship for pretty much all of it's history bar for when Broomy was at the helm:-)
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Old 26th May 2019, 08:40
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Snake, normally iíd Agree with pretty much all your point. But I think you need to go look at the profit/loss figures for the individual parts. VAA domestic has been the cash cow most of the time. Not to say the others donít contribute. But the figures speak for themselves.
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Old 26th May 2019, 12:48
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ifylofd View Post
The thinking inside the cult is that everyone will strive to become a Level 6 manager - apparently reserved for the CEO only. This of course is fine if you drink from the Kool aid, sing kum bah yah at every opportunity, and readily acknowledge every 'minority recognition day' that is held throughout the year.
If you tick all the above boxes, then you can easily move from say, sales one week, to operations support the next, then perhaps have a stab at engineering, then who knows, maybe become a pilot type? Or even the executive management level.

The days in this industry (and many others) where actual relevant experience to the job role is optional, and there is a cavalier approach - let's learn on the run, which of course never works, is why we see an operation like VA so poorly run and managed. Look at the financial results, look at the share price, and then you may have some idea of how much a basket case the business is.
Brilliant. Almost the perfect Abstract for how the Western World lost its way!
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Old 29th May 2019, 11:46
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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So whatís the new CEOís game plan for the ATR? It seems as though the long serving troops on the front line are still trapped by the Ďcapí and generally unhappy. Doesnít look like thereís a flood of new pilots interested in joining the fleet either.

Is it time to bring back the Ejet? Maybe then they could attract some new pilots with the prospect of a good wage/base/career progression and take back all the flying given to Alliance. Who knows, they may even be able to expand their regional ops and actually be a challenger to Qlink.

Either way, the new CEO needs to pay some attention to the ATR. He has an untapped resource of group pilots who could serve the ATR (if the right incentives are put in place) or move onto the jet fleet as their respective positions have allowed for years. Hopefully he doesnít alienate them like the old boss did and create another exodus.
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Old 29th May 2019, 13:56
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Yes Iím sure that is the CEOs number 1 concern when he took on the job to lead the entire VA group - what to do with those whinging ATR pilots. He probably wakes up every day hatching out a complex plan to bring in 100 seat regional jets and re-jig the network just to appease the frothing mob of front seaters rather than solving the issue that a 18 year old company still cannot make a cent in the second half of the financial year.

He really needs to get his priorities straight....
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Old 2nd Jun 2019, 11:15
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chadzat View Post
Yes Iím sure that is the CEOs number 1 concern when he took on the job to lead the entire VA group - what to do with those whinging ATR pilots. He probably wakes up every day hatching out a complex plan to bring in 100 seat regional jets and re-jig the network just to appease the frothing mob of front seaters rather than solving the issue that a 18 year old company still cannot make a cent in the second half of the financial year.

He really needs to get his priorities straight....
harsh...

its one of many things he needs to sort out. ATR lease costs are apparently the highest in the world. The crews have been rooted around some may say more than most other resource groups... like tiger , and long haul, it needs to be sorted out.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 03:12
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pearly White View Post
Actually, getting managers to experience the business exactly as customers experience it was once seen as a breakthrough methodology towards fixing the business right, smashing bureaucracy, and demolishing the head office ivory tower syndrome.

SAS Airlines was turned around in the early 80s by a guy called Jan Carlzon who later published his very simple approach in a slim volume entitled Moments of Truth, utilising ideas like this. Should be compulsory reading not just for aviation managers but for management in any business that serves customers.
I'm well aware of the SAS story thanks... VA is not SAS and TMRB is not Jan Carlzon. What you speak of is fine as long as the people making the major decisions know what the hell they're talking about but instead... they have no ability so latch onto some small item of 'best practice' like these frivolous nibbling around the edges without any of the other elements and then, knowing nothing about the business they're working in/managing, they then do this one thing and recede into their bubble thinking they're doing a sterling job. Before anyone says that TMRB does know about the industry... no, he doesn't... being in the right place at the right time in the competitor for 40 odd years then using gift of the gab to get the gig he's just left and being nothing more than an average salesman does not make him CEO material. I wish Jan Carlzon or someone like him was running VA but they're not or even Gordon Bethune, someone who knows what he's doing but they're not.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 06:08
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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va is not sas and tmrb is not jan carlzon.
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