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Network A320

Old 18th Dec 2018, 00:42
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Network A320

What is the latest info on the Network A320 operation in Perth? Is it operational?, Successful? Can anybody shed some light on what is going on there?
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 05:04
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Wait for it....
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 08:03
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Sits on the overnight ramp a lot......still only 2.....bit of a seagull
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 19:38
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Originally Posted by RU/16 View Post
Sits on the overnight ramp a lot......still only 2.....bit of a seagull
With Fort Fumble IR desperate to prove ample supply of pilots, elements including the Stream Lead are looking at ways to broaden the 'supply'. Nice little inducements at sign up. Yet still not many takers!

After all when Little Napoleon and Bruce Buchanan wandered around Asia, ordering 110 Aircraft for an amazing business they had to find a home for all those older aircraft Qantas own.

Sitting on static display will hopefully convince the pilots in QF that supply is indeed evaporating at the prices Qantas IR want to pay.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 23:17
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So how low is the salary for an A320 Captain?
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 23:32
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Can’t fill the left seat of Jetconnect 737’s either. Struggling with suitably qualified F/O’s to make the next step and no external candidates wanting the job.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 00:03
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Originally Posted by C152R View Post
So how low is the salary for an A320 Captain?
You can figure it out from the Air Pilots Award 2010 (AP2010) (01 July 2018 updated rates) as that is the legal minimum. There is very little effective difference between AP2010 award and Jetstar / Network / Cobham / QF Domestic conditions. They are all effectively casualised, the only real question is how many hours per annum achieved, that is the single greatest determinate of income.

Get ready to break out the spreadsheet...the key assumption is based on the "Standard Rate" Single engine UTBNI 1360 kg of $22.05 per hour and the various multiples that apply for ATPL / Turbojet etc. Suffice to say, the LHS would be circa 173K. Casual rates would be 1/800 of that figure per hour.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 01:58
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There is very little effective difference between AP2010 award and Jetstar / Network / Cobham / QF Domestic conditions.
I don't think so. They are all well above the Award.

I believe Network A320 is around $185K. Cobham regional just finalised their EBA and are around $175K increasing to $185 by 2020.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 02:11
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Are these aircraft not a case of build it and they will come? A320s are increasingly becoming the weapon of choice for big miners in the West, particularly following narrow runway provision. Most (not all) Pilbara runways are 30m wide and +1500ft elevation, and the A320 on a closed charter basis makes much commercial sense for miners, over the B737. Network clearly want in and will make good ROI on these machines if they're successful in tapping into to this market. (IMO)
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 02:26
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It’s more the fact a 320 can do a flap 3 takeoff and haul a reasonable load out of a short hot, high, field.

In fact you’ll probably find a 320s main limitation out of the Pilbara will be the landing weight in Perth.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 07:01
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Originally Posted by dreamer84 View Post
Are these aircraft not a case of build it and they will come? A320s are increasingly becoming the weapon of choice for big miners in the West, particularly following narrow runway provision. Most (not all) Pilbara runways are 30m wide and +1500ft elevation, and the A320 on a closed charter basis makes much commercial sense for miners, over the B737. Network clearly want in and will make good ROI on these machines if they're successful in tapping into to this market. (IMO)
What is this ROI you speak of?
Network are given the aircraft owned by Qantas cycled out of Jetstar while Jetstar take even more aircraft ordered by Little Napoleon with much fanfare in 2011.
It is more a case of hoping that a subsidiary could be found to dump the air frames.
A little payload differential never worried QF management, what drives this is IR.
The mining wind off is an interesting study. Analysts will tell you that the big uplift occurs in the construction phase. Charter companies grow rapidly supporting the build up. State governments jump in with all sorts of inducements only to find that 'mature mines' are somewhat more automated than they assumed.

With QF having split the fleet, with crew bases in WA (rather like the RAN) and pilots in negotiations the more obvious 'return' on Network is scaring the herd in contract season, hoping that pilots don't notice the growing shortage.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:05
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Originally Posted by dreamer84 View Post
Are these aircraft not a case of build it and they will come? A320s are increasingly becoming the weapon of choice for big miners in the West, particularly following narrow runway provision. Most (not all) Pilbara runways are 30m wide and +1500ft elevation, and the A320 on a closed charter basis makes much commercial sense for miners, over the B737. Network clearly want in and will make good ROI on these machines if they're successful in tapping into to this market. (IMO)
Hey Dreamer (quite apt)...
When the 320s turned up in the West, it was all about “our customers are demanding it”. Well I’m yet to see a single 320 in Ginbata/Roy Hill - Gina apparently said “thanks, but no thanks...I’ll take the reliability of the 737 instead”.
Twiggy seems to only want the 320 to Solomon for the reasons you outlined above. Fair enough, but the new FMG airstrip down the road will be 2500m so makes the 320 hot/short argument redundant.
The fact they’ve shoved the 320 onto Newman, Karratha and Broome RPT instead of contract work tends to suggest the customers weren’t demanding it all.
More lies from QF Group management
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 23:03
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In beards we trust

Goblin a quick run of the figures

Newman 40C 5 Tail 1013
RWY 05 A320 69 300kg B737 66357kg
RWY 23 A320 68 200kg B737 65 991kg

Given the landing weights of both A320 66 000kg and B737 66 360kg the additional thrust of the V2500 engine (27000lbs) vs CFM56 (26000lbs) compared to the actual baggage carried , is the airbus actually needed?.

What happened to the double daily Singapore to offset these A320s?.

Last edited by GoldCoastTobacconist; 19th Dec 2018 at 23:11. Reason: grama
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 23:53
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Didn’t QF acquire network to keep the other jet mob on their best behaviour?

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Old 20th Dec 2018, 00:52
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Network is the thirdMajor Airline in Australia,
if youre looking. at coming home from OS do it now and beat the rush , with the forecast growth in population of Australia it will be huge,
and the only way to sort qf mainline training woes
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 01:29
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Originally Posted by Scooter Rassmussin View Post
Network is the thirdMajor Airline in Australia,
if youre looking. at coming home from OS do it now and beat the rush , with the forecast growth in population of Australia it will be huge,
and the only way to sort qf mainline training woes
Qantas IR with their fingers crossed wholly endorse this message.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 01:52
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer View Post

Hey Dreamer (quite apt)...
When the 320s turned up in the West, it was all about “our customers are demanding it”. Well I’m yet to see a single 320 in Ginbata/Roy Hill - Gina apparently said “thanks, but no thanks...I’ll take the reliability of the 737 instead”.
Twiggy seems to only want the 320 to Solomon for the reasons you outlined above. Fair enough, but the new FMG airstrip down the road will be 2500m so makes the 320 hot/short argument redundant.
The fact they’ve shoved the 320 onto Newman, Karratha and Broome RPT instead of contract work tends to suggest the customers weren’t demanding it all.
More lies from QF Group management
What would your proposition be? Bid for work prior to implementing the type, or maybe build the capability pre tender? From where I sit it would make good sense to integrate a new type well before new opportunities become available? And what new FMG airport are you referring to out of interest - additional to the existing other 2 down the road? And I assume you're aware of a few other miners in the region other than Roy Hill and FMG?
Not too many aerodrome operators (mining companies) are going to invest in an additional 500m of pavement and related infrastructure beyond their existing 2000m or so when they don't have to. Almost all recent aerodrome upgrades in the vicinity involve nil extra length with some additional PCN. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. But maybe I'm only dreaming
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 02:22
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Shouldn't this thread be moved to the GA & Questions forum
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 02:44
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Qantas IR with their fingers crossed wholly endorse this message.
This.

Don't be naive, the only training woes at mainline was due to a delayed start-up. We can pontificate why somewhere else.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 03:16
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Network is the third Major Airline in Australia,]
Really?

Surely they are a contract charter company? They don't sell tickets to the public do they? So where do you see their size compared to Alliance or Cobham?

Have you heard of these guys...?

http://www.rex.com.au/

Last edited by Icarus2001; 20th Dec 2018 at 04:10.
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