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Pay rise certain

Old 22nd Aug 2018, 23:20
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Pay rise certain


Looks like you QF guys will get a fab pay rise.
I'm sure Alan will be rather generous given the latest profits.
Lucky guys!!!
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 23:24
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Keg

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$2.5K (taxed) bonus for all staff.

Big share buback- equivalent to at least 2 787s.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 01:06
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.Big share buback- equivalent to at least 2 787s.
Indeed. Weren’t they using A380 equivalents as some kind of metric to argue their point not long ago?

Perhaps we can convert the coming (and past) Executive largesse, along with the monies thrown at buybacks, into 787 equivalents?!
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 01:16
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
$2.5K (taxed) bonus for all staff.
*For the vast majority of employees, and subject to some exceptions set out in this document, this component is payable after the employee’s Post-Wage Freeze Collective Agreement (defined below) is voted up by employees, and then approved by the Fair Work Commission.


Nothing like a bit of bribery.......
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 01:30
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Of course for the staff it’s a flat rated bonus (egalitarianism at its best) while for management it’s based on a percentage of their salary. For them the more they earn the higher the bonus, for us the more you earn the lower the bonus in % terms. George Orwell’s pigs would be proud “ we are all equal but some are more equal than others”.


Last edited by dragon man; 23rd Aug 2018 at 02:51. Reason: Spelling
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 02:10
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So about a weeks pay (or less) for the average mainline pilot?

And 5% of annual salary for a bag chucker, CSA or junior flight attendant?

Seems pretty fair
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 02:18
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What’s a bonus?
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 02:57
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EBA employees will always only ever get a fixed cash bonus. That will never change. Want a % based bonus - take a corporate role.

Share buy back - pump up the share price even more. The underlying real reason for buy backs. Good for the top end who have primary compensation in share allocations.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 03:04
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wonder what the short haul bonus will look like? $$
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 03:25
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I wonder if this extends to all the sub-sub-sub-contract, poverty line operators who are responsible for the facilitation of large sums of revenue. e.g. Network, Cobham, Oceania, Altara, Arrow and the multitude of others...

These profits are largely the result of all out war on the livelihoods of hard working people and nothing more.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 04:08
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
I wonder if this extends to all the sub-sub-sub-contract, poverty line operators who are responsible for the facilitation of large sums of revenue. e.g. Network, Cobham, Oceania, Altara, Arrow and the multitude of others...

These profits are largely the result of all out war on the livelihoods of hard working people and nothing more.
Well said that person.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 04:50
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Qantas Profit Report on ABC
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 07:46
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Originally Posted by greenfields View Post
*For the vast majority of employees, and subject to some exceptions set out in this document, this component is payable after the employee’s Post-Wage Freeze Collective Agreement (defined below) is voted up by employees, and then approved by the Fair Work Commission.


Nothing like a bit of bribery.......
Note further conditions - employment group must not damage QF reputation - ie - any industrial action during that EBA negotiation and you lose your pitiful bonus too....
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 08:07
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Just as well the bonus is so small we won’t have to worry about them taking it away.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 08:20
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30 pieces of silver.... Hmmmm. Adjusted for inflation, not far off Napolean’s after tax offer. Some things do stand the test of time!

So 30 pieces are about 5 weeks money (based on a 6 day working week.) In terms of purchasing power, each silver piece was probably worth about $20. The standards of living being much, much lower than in modern (Western) societies. So the thirty pieces are worth about $600.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 14:09
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Does QF really think people will be bullied into quickly accepting their respective EA’s for a piddling $2000?..
They are either very stupid or very smart with something upmtheir sleeve..
i think Qantas has made a very grave decision, which they’re going to regret!!…
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 15:44
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Considering historical events this announcement is designed to trigger a particular response from the working group to drive a particular change set. That strategy is clear. What is unclear is what he intends to change. We need to be united in our position across the respective unions and to pool together and develop a collective strategy in response.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 16:19
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Perhaps not a fair comparison since in the U.S. wages tend to be higher and the cost of living lower but you might want to check out this year's Delta pilot bonuses. They have raised the bar and the other carriers are jealous.

American Pilots Are Angry That Delta Employees Got Big Profit Sharing Bonuses

American, Delta
You’ve gotta give Delta credit for how well they take care of their employees. Yesterday Delta announced that they’re paying employees over one billion dollars in profit sharing this year. This profit sharing amounts to more than 10% of gross pay for most employees, with the average employee receiving about a $6,000 bonus. That’s a lot.

Here’s what Delta’s CEO, Ed Bastian, had to say about the profit sharing:“This is the fourth year in a row that Delta’s profit sharing has topped $1 billion — a milestone no company in history has ever achieved. Delta people are the reason for our success and Valentine’s Day is our favorite day each year as we celebrate the incredible results our people have delivered.

Our industry-leading profit sharing and compensation philosophy reflects a decision we made a long time ago to share in the company’s success each year with our people who make it possible. Rather than make a one-off payment like other companies, Delta is invested in highly competitive base pay, an industry-leading annual profit sharing plan, and monthly bonuses each year when the airline performs well.”

I give Delta kudos for this, and it’s clear that on balance their employees are more invested in the company than at other airlines (though that’s not true across the board).

Perhaps the more interesting story that has emerged here is how pilots at other airlines feel about this profit sharing.
Forbes has an article about how American pilots are saying “what about us?” following yesterday’s news. According to the story, here’s how profit sharing at the “big three” US airlines differs for pilots:
  • A Delta captain will get a payout of $29,000 to $59,000 (wow!)
  • A United captain will get a payout of $9,300 to $20,500
  • An American captain will get a payout of $3,600 to $7,500
Not surprisingly, American’s pilot union (the Allied Pilots Association) wants to discuss higher profit sharing following yesterday’s news. Here’s what a union representative had to say:“The profit sharing pool at Delta is an Olympics size pool,” Tajer said. “American’s is a kiddie-size pool.

“Our pilots want to not only talk but also we insist on seeing our operations leadership recognized and properly aligned with the financial success of our company like Delta pilots have been for years,” he said.

Here’s what an American spokesperson had to say: American spokeswoman Leslie Mayo said, “We are proud to be able to distribute $241 million in profit sharing to our team members for 2017, as well as a mid-contract pay increase of 8% for our pilots.

“Those raises and profit sharing were the right thing to do for our pilots,” Mayo said. “They earn it every day.”
For more context, here’s how the profit sharing arrangements at American, Delta, and United work (as you’ll see, not only does Delta have the biggest profits, but they also share the highest percent of them with employees) :

Excluding special items and profit sharing, Delta earned $6.5 billion in pretax profits in 2017, while American earned $4.1 billion and United earned $3.5 billion, according to APA figures. Delta is sharing $1.1 billion while United will share $349 million and American will share $241 million.

Delta shares 10% of pretax profits up to $2.5 billion and 20% above $2.5 billion, APA said. United shares 10% up to a 6.9% pre-tax margin and 20% above that margin. American shares 5% of its pretax profit.
Aside from profit sharing, pilot pay at the three carriers is roughly comparable, with senior captains all making $323-330 per hour. If you’re curious, here are the pilot pay rates for
American, Delta, and United.

I’m a bit conflicted in regards to how to feel about the frustration from American pilots.

On one hand, airlines are greedy at the expense of passengers, so it’s not like I want them to keep more of their money and have bigger executives bonuses.

At the same time, it sure seems to me like airline pilot pay is once again getting unsustainably high. Pilots are now back to their pre-9/11 pay rates (inflation adjusted), with some captains making $400,000 per year in total compensation. If any of a variety of factors occurs, airlines won’t be able to sustain these pay rates, and they’ll be back to where they were before. American and the pilots negotiated contracts, and American even raised their pay by 8% last year, which wasn’t required by the contract. They’re getting more than they negotiated and are entitled to.

Furthermore, part of the reason that Delta has such generous profit sharing is because they generate higher profits. American pilots want higher profit sharing even though the airline doesn’t do as well, which to me largely misses the point. While I think management decisions are the driving force in airline performance, employees also do make a big difference, and I can’t say I notice that many employees at American going above and beyond.


https://onemileatatime.com/delta-profit-sharing/
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:04
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Air bubba - the delta case is predicated on a cooperative executive management. Also, I’m failing to see the point you’re trying to make.

There are few learnings that can be extracted in a meaningful way from that article. I mean, Delta operated successfully in their market sphere, their management acknowledged it and divied out a fair share of the loot, other airlines took exception. Best learning from that is, delta management distributed wealth in good faith in recognition of good performance.

Still, I fail to see how applicable that is to the circumstances endured by q staff
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 21:31
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Originally Posted by BogeyBoy View Post
Note further conditions - employment group must not damage QF reputation - ie - any industrial action during that EBA negotiation and you lose your pitiful bonus too....
It is standard industry practice for contract negotiations to lever the business cycle.

There is substantial literature on the process.

Usually companies open 'negotiations' with endless delays. Then,
  • A list of claim is outlined, which due the economic cycle is unacceptable. Then the strategy is wait.
  • The wait is timed to allow the business and economic environment to change. (negatively)
  • Then commences the push down and reductions sought.
With a global shortage now biting and real advances in terms and conditions this threat ought be seen for what it is: A recognition that a delay will not improve the company position.

The FWC might take exception to 'threats' to restrict a workplace right

Last edited by Rated De; 23rd Aug 2018 at 22:36.
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