Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Perth to London

Old 29th Mar 2018, 00:12
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Keg,
The 787's are good on fuel, but there is no way 8T is ever going to be more than 120mins of fuel.

But, its good to see they can get there with 60 holding plus reserves if the have favourable winds.

in reality, the PER-LHR is not as fuel critical in the final stages as the LHR-PER will be. Lots of options in Europe, approaching PER, not so much. without a big tailwind, 8T won't get you to ADL
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 00:24
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Originally Posted by stormfury View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...long-haul-push

It’ll be interesting to see how this compares when SIA commence their 350ULR to NYC later in the year.
While QF is still “evaluating”, NZ already stole their thunder by annoucing AU direct to ORD via AKL. Now why would anyone want to transit at BNE instead of AKL
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 01:39
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Originally Posted by Roj approved View Post
.... Lots of options in Europe....
True. But the limiting factor then will be the 20 hr TOD hard limit. Anyone who has lobbed into the continent short of LHR knows that it's difficult to gas-n-go quickly; mainly it's a slot thing back into the LHR system, from my experience.

Oh that's right, just get the duty limit changed:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...27-p4z6l2.html

"Mr Joyce also said aviation regulators would have to change rules restricting how long pilots can fly for the long-haul routes to work."
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 03:15
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Roj approved View Post
Keg,
The 787's are good on fuel, but there is no way 8T is ever going to be more than 120mins of fuel.

But, its good to see they can get there with 60 holding plus reserves if the have favourable winds.

in reality, the PER-LHR is not as fuel critical in the final stages as the LHR-PER will be. Lots of options in Europe, approaching PER, not so much. without a big tailwind, 8T won't get you to ADL
Southbound is the short one
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:07
  #165 (permalink)  
Keg

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Just looked at today's plan for MEL-PER. 8T is 120 minutes. Thought it may have been more but there you go.

When I looked at the LHR- PER sector a few days back they were carrying a full load of 230+ pax and arriving in PER with about 5.5T. They still had a few ton below MTOW so could probably have put a bit more gas in it. Still, 8T over the top of PER doesn't give you too many funk holes if there are TS around. At least there's normally not much chance of FG in PER in the middle of the arvo!
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:07
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ushuaia View Post
Oh that's right, just get the duty limit changed:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...27-p4z6l2.html

"Mr Joyce also said aviation regulators would have to change rules restricting how long pilots can fly for the long-haul routes to work."
Or he could look at how they’re crewed and recruit-train-retain the right mix of multiple crews within the current duty limits. Oh hang on, that would cost more and would probably eat into his bonus.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:09
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Maggot,

I am aware southbound, LHR-PER is shorter, but the list of suitable alternates in the Indian Ocean is a lot shorter too, if you are chasing the Westerly they will be south of Sri Lanka, 180 mins from Jakarta then its Port Headland and PER. Then even if you have 10T-12T on arrival PER, You won't make ADL, and really, who wants to go to Learmonth or Kalgoorlie?

Ushuaia,
PER-LHR, sure, duty time will be restrictive, but i'd rather be in a hotel in Frankfurt/Rome/ than the airport terminal at Learmonth/Kalgoorlie/Port Headland and running out of duty.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:26
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
Re. fuel remaining overhead EGLL of 8+, what's the problem, that would probably get you to EGKK or EGSS as a full alternate with the B787, based on my B767 time.
Arriving over EGLL with less than 10 in a B747-400 is not unknown, and with an alternate criteria of around 400/1600 (for many airlines even less) it can be quite inclement weather before an alternate in required, but that all depends on your UK CAA Ops. Spec. for your operation.
Contrary to "popular belief" not all airlines carry alternates for all flights, even in Europe.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:34
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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Is Cocos Island a plannable/useable enroute diversion?

Last edited by rjtjrt; 29th Mar 2018 at 05:10.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:34
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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I appreciate you wouldn't want to go there, but are you QF guys/gals able to plan Learmonth if Perth needs an alternate at the planning stage? We're not allowed to plan Learmonth, but we can use it if we run out of options after we launch (eg unforecast fog).
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:35
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Roj approved View Post
Thanks Maggot,

I am aware southbound, LHR-PER is shorter, but the list of suitable alternates in the Indian Ocean is a lot shorter too, if you are chasing the Westerly they will be south of Sri Lanka, 180 mins from Jakarta then its Port Headland and PER. Then even if you have 10T-12T on arrival PER, You won't make ADL, and really, who wants to go to Learmonth or Kalgoorlie?

Ushuaia,
PER-LHR, sure, duty time will be restrictive, but i'd rather be in a hotel in Frankfurt/Rome/ than the airport terminal at Learmonth/Kalgoorlie/Port Headland and running out of duty.
Yep, well south
And yep they probably won't be carrying any alternates, just a standard qf DPA.
As keg said, not too much of a fog risk at 2pm, maybe occasionally TS and they can eek out a tempo for that no problem.
How's cundernin looking LOL
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:37
  #172 (permalink)  
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Yep. We can plan Learmonth as an alternate and/or use it for ETOPS and all DP points.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:38
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Keg - we can't plan to use it as a destination alternate or ETOPS ERA due to the lack of RFF.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 05:09
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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I am aware southbound, LHR-PER is shorter, but the list of suitable alternates in the Indian Ocean is a lot shorter too, if you are chasing the Westerly they will be south of Sri Lanka, 180 mins from Jakarta then its Port Headland and PER. Then even if you have 10T-12T on arrival PER, You won't make ADL, and really, who wants to go to Learmonth or Kalgoorlie?

Ushuaia,
PER-LHR, sure, duty time will be restrictive, but i'd rather be in a hotel in Frankfurt/Rome/ than the airport terminal at Learmonth/Kalgoorlie/Port Headland and running out of duty.
Add in Karratha to that list also...

It’s unlikely hotels would be needed, other than in exceptional circumstances.

Barring other delays out of the departure end, there should be plenty of duty remaining for a gas and go stop if needed, all those ports should be capable of it at that time of day. There should also be standby crew in Perth to pax one of the many qanta... erm network a320 services to pick it up should that be needed. Or have one of those idle a320s come and get the passengers. (Not ideal but not a game changer-stopper).

Adelaide fuel is something like 14t overhead Perth, btw.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 06:12
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Or have one of those idle a320s come and get the passengers. (Not ideal but not a game changer-stopper).
Really?

How's that going to work with a 787-load of passengers, not to mention the usual customs and immigration crap they'd all need to go through before QF or whoever tried to get them all on board [quote] one of those idle a320s

FFS

A 9 out of 10 effort for the exploding Havana Cigar award on that one ES.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 09:31
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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[quote=SIUYA;10100612]Really?

How's that going to work with a 787-load of passengers, not to mention the usual customs and immigration crap they'd all need to go through before QF or whoever tried to get them all on board
one of those idle a320s

FFS

A 9 out of 10 effort for the exploding Havana Cigar award on that one ES.
So send two... there’s gonna be, what, 12 of them?!

Urgh, what’s the point. It was tongue in cheek mate. Enjoy your exploding cigar smartarse.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 09:59
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
Jet A1. Same as when they left!
Hehe... very good... like the alleged story of the old lady in Melbourne asking a tramways employee "Sonny, how long will the next tram be please???"

"Sixty-three feet madam"
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 12:57
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Concerns were raised by passengers off the first 17-hour flights last weekend around comfort levels – especially in economy. Comments have led Joyce to say that the company is hunting for “out-there ideas” to “really change air travel for the future”.
Qantas had a choice for a 2/4/2 configuration but chose 3/3/3. Everybody knows 2/4/2 is better as you are only one seat from a (wider) aisle.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 13:48
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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Re. fuel remaining overhead EGLL of 8+, what's the problem, that would probably get you to EGKK or EGSS as a full alternate with the B787, based on my B767 time.
Agreed, not sure why 8T is remarkable. We (local T7 operator) regularly plan on landing at EGLL with under 7 tonnes...that gives the option of EGKK from the go around, getting there with 30 min reserve...8T overhead LAM (the north east LHR hold) would give EGKK and EGSS as options.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 23:52
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Originally Posted by missy View Post
Qantas had a choice for a 2/4/2 configuration but chose 3/3/3. Everybody knows 2/4/2 is better as you are only one seat from a (wider) aisle.
Passengers would prefer wider seats, than wider aisles, obviously Qantas prefers sardines.
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