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AFAP jobs, market dynamics, regional and global demand

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AFAP jobs, market dynamics, regional and global demand

Old 21st Feb 2018, 10:37
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AFAP jobs, market dynamics, regional and global demand

Is a vacuum being created? Virgin advertises with mins not seen in a long time. US regionals offering sponsorship and visas for jet jobs.
Meanwhile a NZ float operator wants 1000hrs for a 206 job and NCA has readvertised for pilots with 1000 hrs TT
In decades gone by tenure was measured in years, now it appears to be down to months.
At the bottom end of the spectrum it must even be getting hard to retain bare CPL instructors.
Thoughts?
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 13:42
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"Meanwhile a NZ float operator wants 1000hrs for a 206 job and NCA has readvertised for pilots with 1000 hrs TT "

My guess is that if only hiring a very small number of people, an employer can demand/find any conceivable quals he can imagine.

Years ago, I saw an ad by a guy putting together a contract operation for the US DoD using IL-86s (It didn't ultimately happen) . This meant US citizenship is mandatory.

I figured I might as well contact him and apply cuz..how many US citizens will he possibly find with IL-86 experience ?

The answer ? : FOUR...and two were current in the airplane !

Want a handful of something ? No problem...

Ya gotta just laugh.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 19:34
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I think it is a case of "perception meets reality"

The general expensiveness of life in OZ/NZ combined with low wages made GA path extremely unattractive. On top of that - the introduction of VET FEE-HELP loans practically killed private flying schools and doubled the costs of the flight training.
Only this one would put these questions into prospective student's head: "Will I ever repay that flying 206? Hold on, how long will it take before I even get to fly 206?"

At the same time, pilot demand has increased to the point where bean counters statistically worked out that commercial benefit of putting 250hrs cadet into a right seat of 737/320 far outweighs a risk of said cadet flying it into the ground. At the end of the day, that's what insurance is for.
To date, they have proven themselves right and it shows from current job market trends. Just have to look how many large players in Asia/Europe/States have transitioned to cadetship schemes. Same as above - training costs are exorbitant, but they are repaid quite quickly and that incentive of flying a jet is simply irresistible.

Which path would one pick? Will anybody turn down an opportunity to get into the airline right here, right now? Don't think so.

In my opinion, GA operators are yet to come to terms with the fact that they are offering an inferior product in a buyers market. But even in this case, competing with big players will be extremely hard and will require some drastic changes starting from the reduction of required flight hours and maybe going as far as in-house flight training.
I honestly don't envy these guys. They have extremely hard times ahead.

Comrade
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 00:21
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The high hour requirements for the GA operators are most likely a result of the insurance requirements, particularly for PNG GA operators. NCA wanted 1,000 hrs 20 years ago when I first went to PNG - nothing has changed.
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 01:09
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Originally Posted by Duck Pilot View Post
The high hour requirements for the GA operators are most likely a result of the insurance requirements, particularly for PNG GA operators. NCA wanted 1,000 hrs 20 years ago when I first went to PNG - nothing has changed.
Also client driven, especially by oil and gas. Just look at the BARS manual which lists the requirements the likes of BHP etc follow.

Problem is now the legacy rates that GA operators won the contracts on canít keep up with the airline suck.
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 07:30
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Do to those jobs WELL (which is all the more important for a small business) requires skill and experience. You can train any monkey to be an airline pilot. Nobody cares how good you are, just tick the boxes and don't get flagged on the data logging. Lets compare apples with apples.
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 15:43
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The news of Qantas Pilot Academy came rather timely and as a serious confirmation of my thoughts.

The market is changing very fast indeed. I sometimes wonder if there is a possibility of it reversing to the point where GA job will become a retirement hobby or a sort of "honorary service".

Comrade
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 19:09
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Originally Posted by ComradeRoo View Post
The news of Qantas Pilot Academy came rather timely and as a serious confirmation of my thoughts.

The market is changing very fast indeed. I sometimes wonder if there is a possibility of it reversing to the point where GA job will become a retirement hobby or a sort of "honorary service".

Comrade
Outside of flight instruction or high paying niche work (firefighting in an 802 air tractor) thatís the way it is here in the US. Corporate flights departments/FBOís canít get guys for the command seats. Pretty much the airlines and regionals are sucking up anyone and everyone that has ATP mins and is paying more than the GA jobs with guaranteed advancement.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 09:50
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I am hearing that in a large number flying schools, junior instructors are turning down upgrades to ME-IFR Instructing positions because they will be applying for US Regionals. No ATPL's needed to go to Skywest etc.

So where are Qantas going to get 90 instructors from. To graduate 500 students a year, that's how many you will need on the roster. 20 classrooms, accommodation, transport, meals. It's a massive undertaking, $20 million will barely pay for the charts & pencils.

Will they offer these positions to failed applicants to mainline? Sorry you are rejected for Qantas, but you can teach the next generation of Qantas pilots. Will they offer staff travel. They are going to need to make it worthwhile.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 10:44
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So where are Qantas going to get 90 instructors from. To graduate 500 students a year, that's how many you will need on the roster. 20 classrooms, accommodation, transport, meals. It's a massive undertaking, $20 million will barely pay for the charts & pencils.
It is delicious irony that for decades airline IR/HR have driven terms and conditions to the point that when combined with a demographic shortage there is simply insufficient supply.


As is always the case with modern Qantas, spin over substance.
The logistics and practicalities of this are mind boggling, but when the collective understanding at Fort Fumble about piloting and the skillset fits on a postage stamp, then this is reported as though starting tomorrow it delivers 500 pilots..


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Old 24th Feb 2018, 10:21
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
The logistics and practicalities of this are mind boggling, but when the collective understanding at Fort Fumble about piloting and the skillset fits on a postage stamp, then this is reported as though starting tomorrow it delivers 500 pilots..
I shat a brick when I heard about the scheme. Many thoughts of 'if only I'd mucked around for a few years out of high school' and 'well there goes my chance of a career'.

Then I actually stopped to think about the logistics of what they're proposing and suddenly, I was OK with it.

I do wonder though if this means they're going to start pushing for an MPL type scheme... I would have thought that would have been too good an opportunity to pass up for management to justify creating a two tier pay scale....
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 23:01
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If you go and take a read of the pilot shortage thread on here you will see that despite the screaming out for pilots and minimums coming down the...cough...'standards' are not changing. So the 'tell us a time when' and psychometric testing and comparing you to the A380 Captain who so happens to want to come back to the A320 -'other applicants', is still happening.
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