Very Competative $2270 Perth - London
Join Date: May 2011
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QF would never get the traffic rights. Emirates/Singapore Airlines/Thai/Malaysia would never allow it & they are all basically govt run or funded airlines.
I'd put money on the likelihood that the initial flights are capped in both directions for the first few weeks (if not, even permanently). So any talk of the loads potentially being low should probably consider this. Any diversion or flight that doesn't make it in the early time period of the route operating will be a PR disaster.
The higher cost of the tickets probably not only reflects an attempt at charging a premium for a non stop service (well, non stop out of Perth anyway), but also a way to buffer the loss from a whole bunch of economy class being blocked off.
Its been no secret that ultimately QF see direct, point to point, ultra long haul travel as a major area they want the international business to grow. There has been a desire for an aircraft that can do SYD-JFK, and MEL/SYD direct to LHR, and obviously those would be a premium service at a premium price. Per-Lhr is a route that starts to give people the idea that these routes are possible and are worth the extra coin, so that when the Aircraft that can do those new routes profitably come into existence, they can point to the ULR routes they have been doing for years and say they are the old hands at it all.
I can see the company accepting that the route itself may not be very profitable, if at all, at the expense of reliability, only to have created a market whereby the company basically positions itself as the market expert/leader.
Playing the long game, if you will. Ofcourse, I could be giving management far too much credit.
The higher cost of the tickets probably not only reflects an attempt at charging a premium for a non stop service (well, non stop out of Perth anyway), but also a way to buffer the loss from a whole bunch of economy class being blocked off.
Its been no secret that ultimately QF see direct, point to point, ultra long haul travel as a major area they want the international business to grow. There has been a desire for an aircraft that can do SYD-JFK, and MEL/SYD direct to LHR, and obviously those would be a premium service at a premium price. Per-Lhr is a route that starts to give people the idea that these routes are possible and are worth the extra coin, so that when the Aircraft that can do those new routes profitably come into existence, they can point to the ULR routes they have been doing for years and say they are the old hands at it all.
I can see the company accepting that the route itself may not be very profitable, if at all, at the expense of reliability, only to have created a market whereby the company basically positions itself as the market expert/leader.
Playing the long game, if you will. Ofcourse, I could be giving management far too much credit.
How long is DOH-AKL? And is Emirates doing Dubai to Panama?
Wrong. Great circle SYD - JFK is 8648 NM. DOH - AKL is 7848 NM.
Bernoulli got it right (again
. DOH - AKL is longer by 19 NM. So, the nasty little Irishman hasn't really changed anyone's game. Except the DVT suffering punters in economy.
Bernoulli got it right (again
. DOH - AKL is longer by 19 NM. So, the nasty little Irishman hasn't really changed anyone's game. Except the DVT suffering punters in economy.
I can see the company accepting that the route itself may not be very profitable, if at all, at the expense of reliability, only to have created a market whereby the company basically positions itself as the market expert/leader.
Routings vary greatly on ULH flights, the airlines planning department are kept busy looking at wind charts and adjusting accordingly. Distance flown may be greater if the numbers work out for an increased tailwind or reduced headwind.
A ton of fuel loaded at the start of the flight will equal around 250kgs at the end after the burn off required to simply have it in the tanks.
Other factor is that SQ put up with marginal yields on the ULH to New York because it took a lot of high yielding pax away from competitor airlines.
So even though it wasn't a money spinner for them it hurt the competition which is just as good.
QF would, or at least should, be thinking along the same lines.
So even though it wasn't a money spinner for them it hurt the competition which is just as good.
QF would, or at least should, be thinking along the same lines.
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A350-900ULR apparently has the range to do LHR or JFK to both Sydney and Melbourne non-stop.
Reduced pax load cf "straight" A350-900.
"Airbus has disclosed a formal range figure for the A350-900ULR of 9,700nm,....."
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...airbus-437060/
Reduced pax load cf "straight" A350-900.
"Airbus has disclosed a formal range figure for the A350-900ULR of 9,700nm,....."
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...airbus-437060/
Other factor is that SQ put up with marginal yields on the ULH to New York because it took a lot of high yielding pax away from competitor airlines.
So even though it wasn't a money spinner for them it hurt the competition which is just as good.
QF would, or at least should, be thinking along the same lines.
So even though it wasn't a money spinner for them it hurt the competition which is just as good.
QF would, or at least should, be thinking along the same lines.
Absolutely. This is the general gist of what I mean, and Per - Lhr could be financially marginal for a while to take this traffic, and build customer confidence.
It also positions them at the forefront with a market that is confident in their ability to provide what they say they offer, once the Aircraft is available (777-8X might do SYD-JFK with 250 to 300pax, but I wouldn't think QF is going to buy it until it can do east coast direct LHR as well, perhaps an aux tank here, efficiency/weight refinements there, etc = lager order, better scale...). QF may not be the first to do the ULR thing, but Coke wasn't the original Cola, Apple wasn't the original computer, though they are now among the top companies within their respective markets because people know and like what they get.
The real eventual success of these long range flights will be capturing, (and in the case of First Class, re-capturing), the premium travellers who will pay a 10% or 20% premium to save the 3 or more hours in a direct flight.
I'm purely speculating with all this, but hey, if its true, the chance of a spare seat next to you in the crappy 9 abreast economy class might be quite good!
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in todays Australian - EK 82% profit reduction. EY in trouble with massive loses from investments in Alitalia & Air Berlin, which are now virtually worthless. In other words, world aviation is in serious trouble. Similar to another GFC perhaps.
Last edited by BNEA320; 13th May 2017 at 05:25.
In other words, world aviation is in serious trouble.
You really need to take a deep breath. We may end up in recession but it is not a certainty. How does ONE airline lead to a GFC?
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Gee you are a real doom and gloom merchant aren't you? Elsewhere you state that because the real estate market is subdued in Australia we are about to fall into recession and now because EK lose money it is the same as another GFC.
You really need to take a deep breath. We may end up in recession but it is not a certainty. How does ONE airline lead to a GFC?
You really need to take a deep breath. We may end up in recession but it is not a certainty. How does ONE airline lead to a GFC?
The recession is here now. Sounds like you listen to the absolute crap in the media, too much. Remember Australian media earns billions every year, in real estate advertising.
Okay perhaps I assumed too much.
Let's go back to first principles. You do know what a recession is right?
Two quarters of negative growth in a row, six months in other words.
Any sign of that?
Let's go back to first principles. You do know what a recession is right?
Two quarters of negative growth in a row, six months in other words.
Any sign of that?
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Have you noticed sales for everything these days, esp airfares ... $899 return to Europe & even less to USA(not Hawaii) return from BNE/SYD/MEL.
Airlines cannot fill international flight except in school holidays.
housing market
rental yields are dropping fast, as landlords can't rent their properties, so they keep lowering the rent, which makes the property worth less & less.
AUD$ - who knows where it will be in 6 months
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Sounds like you listen to the absolute crap in the media
In other words, world aviation is in serious trouble.
Delta Airlines paid out record 1B in profit share to employees.
Qatar Airways, from reports, is about to announce a record profit.
IAG has just announced a record first quarter profit.
Lufthansa Group has just announced a 4.6% increase in profit on last year, keeping their margins at record prior-year levels.
A certain un-nameable airline in the ME have never had a market, and will never succeed alone.
EK is finally having all of its chickens coming home to roost. The oil price has damaged the ME in extremely significant ways, and, ironically, EK is feeling the brunt of it. Cost cutting has meant that the EK product is no longer what it was, and passengers are going elsewhere.
BNEA320 your statement is a sensationalist, and uneducated one. To put it bluntly, you are full of ....
Last edited by keepitrealok; 13th May 2017 at 11:53.
Nunc est bibendum
What do you reckon happened in Singapore up until Qantas pulled out and replaced it with DXB? Every day pax would arrive from BNE on the QF51 and complex with the QF5 744 to FRA. They'd arrive from MEL on the QF9 and transfer to the QF5 heading to FRA. That's what a hub is and I suspect in the medium to long term that's what PER will become.