Pilot shortage
As someone else pointed out - there is no shortage of qualified people.
There is a shortage of people here willing to join the race to the bottom or to work in an airline 'salt mine' environment.
The holes will be filled by 457 visa holders who see it as an easy entry ticket to Australia. Citizenship in 5 years and then off to better pastures.
You sacrifice a lot of quality family time working in aviation over the years. Most kids of pilots want nothing to do with it.
Yes another ramble.
There is a shortage of people here willing to join the race to the bottom or to work in an airline 'salt mine' environment.
The holes will be filled by 457 visa holders who see it as an easy entry ticket to Australia. Citizenship in 5 years and then off to better pastures.
You sacrifice a lot of quality family time working in aviation over the years. Most kids of pilots want nothing to do with it.
Yes another ramble.
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If you can earn $400,000-$700,000 flying in China on a 737 largely tax free at what point do people say f&$#@ this I’m off to work for 5-8 years then chuck in the towel. Commuting contract. Business class confirmed up and back.
Be the same dollars as 20 plus years in QF sitting at the bottom of the pile.
Not to mention getting not getting lied to by management.
It’s just a job now anyway.
Be the same dollars as 20 plus years in QF sitting at the bottom of the pile.
Not to mention getting not getting lied to by management.
It’s just a job now anyway.
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If you think the lies are any different in China, then you obviously haven’t worked there.......
The lies are not any different in any industry. Whole departments of lawyers, marketers and HR 'craft' message. The modern corporate is carefully crafted BS factory, where every utterance is weaved with a view to ensuring nothing is enforceable and everything protects the speaker from litigation. This particularly applies to staff communication.
Having said all that, the market is pushing Australian airlines in the direction of the market and they do not like it, so more BS will flow; it is all they know.
At $400k to $700k the BS is a little less difficult to digest!
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I know of several pilots in one particularly short staffed airline where leave is seen by management as an inconvenient luxury and where fatigue, fear and stress are at toxic levels, who have visited a DAME to get a break and are granted without question.
Pilots have control. The company doesn't want an accident, but at the same time are happy to push pilots to 'contractual limits' which conveniently take pilots outside the CAO statutory limits (and the pilot loses protection, assuming the risk, as they 'volunteered')
There is no requirement under most western statute for an employee to disclose the nature and illness to anyone other than their doctor. Ask your Doctor!
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Porch, who cares about the lies but the money is there and my mates are taking it, you pretty much earn triple to quadruple than here in oz so tuff it out for 5 -7 years then retire 10 years early! That my friend is the reality!
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Yeah and nothing ever goes wrong - never any medical hassles, never any FOQA report hassles, never any hiccups in the SIM etc.
Just do your guaranteed 7-10 years of keeping your mouth shut as your guaranteed position just ticks over and they keep throwing money at you.
And of course unlike other economies there's no chance the Chinese economic miracle could ever slow down...or worse.
If it's all so bloody easy amazes me there are any pilots left in Oz at all, what are they all stupid or something?
Guaranteed "money for nothing" and early retirement.
Yeah, right.
Just do your guaranteed 7-10 years of keeping your mouth shut as your guaranteed position just ticks over and they keep throwing money at you.
And of course unlike other economies there's no chance the Chinese economic miracle could ever slow down...or worse.
If it's all so bloody easy amazes me there are any pilots left in Oz at all, what are they all stupid or something?
Guaranteed "money for nothing" and early retirement.
Yeah, right.
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I have not seen any legislative support for this. I would very much like to see any official discussions, or evidence in support. Perhaps a freedom of information act request is merited?
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https://www.google.com.au/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1F73AM
Bit of an under statement
'This one is a little bit worse than normal, but I don't think it is going to last forever'
Bit of an under statement
'This one is a little bit worse than normal, but I don't think it is going to last forever'
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“It just follows the trend of cycles in aviation,” Australian Federation of Air Pilots President David Booth, a Virgin pilot, said of the hiring rush.
“This one is a little bit worse than normal, but I don’t think it is going to last forever.”
“This one is a little bit worse than normal, but I don’t think it is going to last forever.”
What sort of research and data sets have you consulted in order to form an opinion? Or is the opinion you express simply your opinion?
The shortage is demographic. Mr Booth isn't old enough to have seen any other airline environment where airline pilot supply was presumed unlimited.
With the vast resources as the disposal of 'representative bodies' it is disappointing that they are not sharing the 'research' in order to counter any management induced Fear,Uncertainty or Doubt that will be the weapon of choice as the shortage becomes more self evident. Geez, management went quietly to Oberstleutnant Dutton for pilot 457 visas...
I have not seen any legislative support for this. I would very much like to see any official discussions, or evidence in support. Perhaps a freedom of information act request is merited?
Last edited by Rated De; 3rd Feb 2018 at 23:46.
Hmmm, I don’t know if it would really. I doubt you’re going to get many if any new pilots at those bases, you’re talking existing pilots at Emirates, which isn’t going to do anything to Australian pilot numbers in the short term.
And to set up a base there would mean loss of control by the Emirates, which I don’t think would go down well with them.
morno
And to set up a base there would mean loss of control by the Emirates, which I don’t think would go down well with them.
morno
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Hmmm, I don’t know if it would really. I doubt you’re going to get many if any new pilots at those bases, you’re talking existing pilots at Emirates, which isn’t going to do anything to Australian pilot numbers in the short term.
Inside corporations (including airlines) HR/IR occupy a lot of space, consume a lot of head count and remain a substantial cost centre.
A forward thinking airline may realise they have cut the wrong areas (operational staff) and address the shortage by directing resources, including bases at Operational areas.
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An Emirates , Etihad or Qatar base in Mel Syd BNE Adelaide and Perth would shake up the numbers .
More importantly, there is no return of cash back into their own economies. This is a crucial aspect. In my way of thinking DXB is a giant real estate play, it's main export is itself. The more expat's cash it can capture in the place, the better as it generates demand for goods and services, and this enhances its value as tourist destination in it's own right. It is a closed loop system.
Having crew based outside DXB represents cash haemorrhaging from the system, rather than just the leak of savings as expat's move on elsewhere.
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https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/new...-axed-flights/
FARE DUES Ryanair reveals ten day compensation scheme after axed flights caused travel chaos last year
Thousands of passengers were hit in the pocket when the airline cancelled hundreds of flights in Scotland
THOUSANDS of passengers were hit in the pocket when Ryanair axed hundreds of flights in Scotland last year.
Now chiefs have vowed to settle compensation claims within ten days and look at bringing in automatic payments.
But Alex Neill, of consumer mag Which?, warns the proof will be in the budget airline’s actions.
RYANAIR has launched its latest “Always Getting Better” campaign and pledged to look at automatic compensation for fliers hit by delays and cancellations.
The airline is now into its fourth year of the drive — which may surprise its customers.
So forgive me for being a little sceptical about whether a vow to look at something is anything more than PR puff.
To people dealing with the budget carrier recently, it has felt more like things are “Always Getting Worse”.
Take last year. Ryanair launched its 2017 AGB customer service plan with an equally promising sounding set of plans.
There was also an assurance passengers would have the “best choice of destinations with the most on-time flights and a fantastic on-board experience, as we grow our fleet, traffic and routes”.
No doubt some of those pledges were fulfilled.
But for hundreds of thousands of people, 2017 was about axed flights and appalling customer service as chief Michael O’Leary slashed routes to deal with a pilot shortage.
It included all trips from Glasgow and Edinburgh to London.
For many this was much more than a missed business trip or city break.
In some cases it meant the heartache of plans to spend Christmas with loved ones abandoned, or the stress of trying to find a way to fly an entire wedding party thousands of miles at the last minute.
A lot of people were left hundreds of pounds out of pocket as they scrambled to make alternative travel arrangements.
To make matters worse, Ryanair initially responded by playing fast and loose with people’s rights.
It failed to share proper advice and made it difficult to arrange alternative flights or claim compensation.
Ryanair’s behaviour during the fiasco prompted the Civil Aviation Authority to take enforcement action against the firm for “persistently misleading” customers.
So when Ryanair makes grand promises to its passengers, it would be wise to wait to see some action to go with the carefully crafted words.
We’ll be keeping a close eye on the promise of a dedicated team processing valid compensation claims within ten days.
And if the airline does go further and brings in automatic compensation, it will be a market leading move, which we’ll applaud — while urging the rest of the industry to follow suit.
The case for doing so is clear. According to Which? analysis of CAA data, more than 1,200 flights to or from Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen were delayed by at least three hours in 2016-17.
That means thousands of Scots were entitled to claim between £220 and £530, depending on the length of the delay.
But how many of us can take the time and effort to fill out complicated forms then wait weeks to find out if we’ll get what we’re owed?
Not enough — or at least that’s the calculation the airlines make.
That’s why we’re calling on all airlines to bring in automatic compensation for passengers — taking the hassle out of claiming what they’re entitled to.
Perhaps then long-suffering customers of Ryanair and all airlines will finally feel like things really are “Always Getting Better”.
The airline insisted that “Always Getting Better” has delivered a string of improvements in the past four years.
And Ryanair’s Kenny Jacobs said the firm run by Micheal O’Leary will deliver more “real” changes in 2018.
Thousands of passengers were hit in the pocket when the airline cancelled hundreds of flights in Scotland
THOUSANDS of passengers were hit in the pocket when Ryanair axed hundreds of flights in Scotland last year.
Now chiefs have vowed to settle compensation claims within ten days and look at bringing in automatic payments.
But Alex Neill, of consumer mag Which?, warns the proof will be in the budget airline’s actions.
RYANAIR has launched its latest “Always Getting Better” campaign and pledged to look at automatic compensation for fliers hit by delays and cancellations.
The airline is now into its fourth year of the drive — which may surprise its customers.
So forgive me for being a little sceptical about whether a vow to look at something is anything more than PR puff.
To people dealing with the budget carrier recently, it has felt more like things are “Always Getting Worse”.
Take last year. Ryanair launched its 2017 AGB customer service plan with an equally promising sounding set of plans.
There was also an assurance passengers would have the “best choice of destinations with the most on-time flights and a fantastic on-board experience, as we grow our fleet, traffic and routes”.
No doubt some of those pledges were fulfilled.
But for hundreds of thousands of people, 2017 was about axed flights and appalling customer service as chief Michael O’Leary slashed routes to deal with a pilot shortage.
It included all trips from Glasgow and Edinburgh to London.
For many this was much more than a missed business trip or city break.
In some cases it meant the heartache of plans to spend Christmas with loved ones abandoned, or the stress of trying to find a way to fly an entire wedding party thousands of miles at the last minute.
A lot of people were left hundreds of pounds out of pocket as they scrambled to make alternative travel arrangements.
To make matters worse, Ryanair initially responded by playing fast and loose with people’s rights.
It failed to share proper advice and made it difficult to arrange alternative flights or claim compensation.
Ryanair’s behaviour during the fiasco prompted the Civil Aviation Authority to take enforcement action against the firm for “persistently misleading” customers.
So when Ryanair makes grand promises to its passengers, it would be wise to wait to see some action to go with the carefully crafted words.
We’ll be keeping a close eye on the promise of a dedicated team processing valid compensation claims within ten days.
And if the airline does go further and brings in automatic compensation, it will be a market leading move, which we’ll applaud — while urging the rest of the industry to follow suit.
The case for doing so is clear. According to Which? analysis of CAA data, more than 1,200 flights to or from Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen were delayed by at least three hours in 2016-17.
That means thousands of Scots were entitled to claim between £220 and £530, depending on the length of the delay.
But how many of us can take the time and effort to fill out complicated forms then wait weeks to find out if we’ll get what we’re owed?
Not enough — or at least that’s the calculation the airlines make.
That’s why we’re calling on all airlines to bring in automatic compensation for passengers — taking the hassle out of claiming what they’re entitled to.
Perhaps then long-suffering customers of Ryanair and all airlines will finally feel like things really are “Always Getting Better”.
The airline insisted that “Always Getting Better” has delivered a string of improvements in the past four years.
And Ryanair’s Kenny Jacobs said the firm run by Micheal O’Leary will deliver more “real” changes in 2018.
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Pisses off existing crew already stuck in ME.
More importantly, there is no return of cash back into their own economies. This is a crucial aspect. In my way of thinking DXB is a giant real estate play, it's main export is itself. The more expat's cash it can capture in the place, the better as it generates demand for goods and services, and this enhances its value as tourist destination in it's own right. It is a closed loop system.
Having crew based outside DXB represents cash haemorrhaging from the system, rather than just the leak of savings as expat's move on elsewhere.
CurtainTwitcher is offline
More importantly, there is no return of cash back into their own economies. This is a crucial aspect. In my way of thinking DXB is a giant real estate play, it's main export is itself. The more expat's cash it can capture in the place, the better as it generates demand for goods and services, and this enhances its value as tourist destination in it's own right. It is a closed loop system.
Having crew based outside DXB represents cash haemorrhaging from the system, rather than just the leak of savings as expat's move on elsewhere.
CurtainTwitcher is offline
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Ask for the pass rates of their current interviewing, I bet that tells a different story of how desperate they are for pilots.
Psychometric Testing, Sim Rides etc, it is all about culling from the masses of the over ubnudant labour supply, and called another name of "airline standards".
So anyone heard of airlines dropping ANY of those tests in interview rounds lately that they normally do?...no.
Psychometric Testing, Sim Rides etc, it is all about culling from the masses of the over ubnudant labour supply, and called another name of "airline standards".
So anyone heard of airlines dropping ANY of those tests in interview rounds lately that they normally do?...no.
Thread Starter
Hmmm, I have sat on a few interview panels.
I can just imagine the conversation at the meeting after an interview round;
“ we’re finding it a bit hard to recruit the numbers we want, I suggest we drop the standard required in the sim or our psychometric testing”..........stunned silence.......” Bryan....we can’t officially drop any of those things without being seen to step away from safety as our highest priority, feel free to have a chat with the recruitment sim pilots and suggest same but I think you will be met with rather stiff resistance.”....... “ OK just a thought”.
I can just imagine the conversation at the meeting after an interview round;
“ we’re finding it a bit hard to recruit the numbers we want, I suggest we drop the standard required in the sim or our psychometric testing”..........stunned silence.......” Bryan....we can’t officially drop any of those things without being seen to step away from safety as our highest priority, feel free to have a chat with the recruitment sim pilots and suggest same but I think you will be met with rather stiff resistance.”....... “ OK just a thought”.