Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Pilot shortage

Old 28th Mar 2018, 10:32
  #861 (permalink)  
 
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The amusing part of this is that the airlines have, in the Australian context done nothing to further that from what they feed.



Ourobouros is the concept from mythology.

Airlines selectively and at times of their choosing drained the supply.
The last airline sponsored cadet program was Qantas last century, albeit at taxpayer expense.

The rise of Low Fare Airlines and the magic labour unit cost reductions they achieved were driven in part by oversupply of pilots. Pilots paying for endorsements, interviews and even in the case of Ryan Air uniforms.

Meals were cut, salaries barely kept up with inflation and the industry was self satisfied; there were always new instructors training new commercial pilots.

Unlimited supply is at the foundation of the adversarial IR model employed by many airlines.

30 years is a long time for a paradigm to hold, but demographics always guaranteed that unlimited supply would fade and the airlines exacerbated the shortage by driving conditions, respect and careers ever downwards.

Just in the last year in Australia

  • Pilots added to the skilled shortages list
  • Jetconnect rolled into Australia without a whimper from the union concerned.
  • Network Aviation to get A320 (up to 20 from JQ)
  • Qantas to open a 'pilot training academy'
  • Qantas 'roadshows' asking staff to recommend friends!
  • ATPL requirements relaxed
With pilots having been pushed into positions where once sacred regulatory limits are targets for the HR practictioners, everyone is tired.


As the snake begins to consume its own tail, Mr Joyce could make a direct appeal to his 'professional company ambassadors' to go the extra mile. He has a 'short' memory as many Qantas pilots remember October 2011 only too well.

Rather amusing as it builds
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 17:17
  #862 (permalink)  
 
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‘Up to 20 A320s for Network’... that number keeps getting bigger and bigger! It’ll be 50 A320s and a handful of wide bodies by next week! Pilots are good at allowing rumours to gather momentum!
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 18:14
  #863 (permalink)  
 
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High minimums

The reason you need 2000 hours TT and 500 hours Multi to fly a S340 is because they expect to upgrade you ASAP. They don’t need more 200 hour cadets that take 3 years to upgrade, they’ve got plenty of those! Pass 2 sim checks and you’ll quickly find yourself in the LHS.

Q’link/Airnorth would be the same. They’re hiring future Captains, not f/o’s that need baby sitting for 3-4 years.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 18:24
  #864 (permalink)  
 
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So where are the 200 hour guys they hired 3 years ago who should be ready for upgrade?
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 18:32
  #865 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
So where are the 200 hour guys they hired 3 years ago who should be ready for upgrade?

They're probably at SkyWest.

(The USA one, not the Aussie one.)
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 19:27
  #866 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aviation_enthus View Post
The reason you need 2000 hours TT and 500 hours Multi to fly a S340 is because they expect to upgrade you ASAP. They don’t need more 200 hour cadets that take 3 years to upgrade, they’ve got plenty of those! Pass 2 sim checks and you’ll quickly find yourself in the LHS.

Q’link/Airnorth would be the same. They’re hiring future Captains, not f/o’s that need baby sitting for 3-4 years.
So are they offering "ready to upgrade to captain" pay, or are they offering "200 hour cadet" pay and hoping that some 2000 hour, ready to upgrade to captain pilots will accept the low pay until such time as they upgrade ... no promises on when that will be of course.

Also, what sort of pay and work rules will they be under once upgraded? Subsidiary question: what happened to the captains who were previously filling the vacancies they re trying to fill now? Why did they leave? for better pay? Better schedulable?
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 00:47
  #867 (permalink)  
 
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The writing has been on the wall since the Pilots Dispute. The denigration of the profession and erosion of conditions by Dixon and successors has removed the role of Pilot as a desirable career option for many and airlines are seeing the results - this is not a reflection on the crew who have persisted and have had their career /lifestyle expectations continually lowered.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 01:22
  #868 (permalink)  
 
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Jetconnect rolled into Australia without a whimper from the union concerned.
No no no no no I won't have that, the union concerned is continuing the GRADE process ........... now they are all back from Luxembourg
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 01:51
  #869 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
So where are the 200 hour guys they hired 3 years ago who should be ready for upgrade?


I would guess they never hired them and assumed they would always be able to get the 2000hr guys.


They expected someone else to hire the 200 hire guys and give them the experience.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:34
  #870 (permalink)  
 
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Big difference because CASA don't recognise IFR flight plan time.----- logging instrument flight time during CAVOK weather on every trip.
Folks,
Last time I looked, that was not cheating at all, if you believe it is, please post the reference from the regulations that says it has to be IMC to log IFR time.
Likewise, it can be logged with the AP engaged, if you thing not, please post the contrary regulatory requirement.
Regulatory facts please, not superstition, supposition, and " - I was told/given to understand/my company allows!!
Tootle pip!!

PS:
Have you all seen today's Australian, the article about Qantas lobbying for two year visas for (what was) 457 visa pilots to be extended to a minimum of five year

Last edited by LeadSled; 29th Mar 2018 at 04:45.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 04:45
  #871 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Folks,
Last time I looked, that was not cheating at all, if you believe it is, please post the reference from the regulations that says it has to be IMC to log IFR time.
Likewise, it can be logged with the AP engaged, if you thing not, please post the contrary regulatory requirement.
Regulatory facts please, not superstition, supposition, and " - I was told/given to understand/my company allows!!
Tootle pip!!

It is in the US .. cheating I mean. Different country, different rules, I know.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 05:00
  #872 (permalink)  
 
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(FAA) Legal Interpretation #84-29
ASquared,
See the above for the FAA formal interpretation of the rules, re.14 CFR 61.51 - Pilot logbooks.
It is markedly different to Australia, but subject to wide legitimate interpretation. In my experience, it is not a thing FAA gets hung up about.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 05:23
  #873 (permalink)  
 
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Have you all seen today's Australian, the article about Qantas lobbying for two year visas for (what was) 457 visa pilots to be extended to a minimum of five year
This is the current state of the 457 visa abuse program, erm, or whatever it’s called now, Qantas in this instance would be using it in the spirit that it was created for (or at least that’s what their narrative is), as its ‘just until the academy’s up and running and addressing the skills shortage’...

Like almost every other business in Australia, they’ll use (abuse) this program to merely avoid wage rises that would attract retain local staff.

The unions should be out there campaigning against ANY special extensions whatsoever.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 05:50
  #874 (permalink)  
 
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Qantas pushes for visa extensions, more foreign pilots amid critical staff shortage
Qantas pushes for visa extensions, more foreign pilots amid critical staff shortage - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 06:10
  #875 (permalink)  
 
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The unions should be out there campaigning against ANY special extensions whatsoever.
We mentioned this in another thread.

It is quietly suggested that Qantas are pursuing the same narrative for Network A320.

The union response is sub optimal to say the least. From connections at QF, the response is non-existent.

No no no no no I won't have that, the union concerned is continuing the GRADE process ........... now they are all back from Luxembourg
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 06:42
  #876 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
ASquared,
See the above for the FAA formal interpretation of the rules, re.14 CFR 61.51 - Pilot logbooks.
It is markedly different to Australia, but subject to wide legitimate interpretation. In my experience, it is not a thing FAA gets hung up about.
Tootle pip!!
Yes, I'm quite familiar with that interpretation. Yes, there are times when it is legal to log instrument time when you're not actually inside a cloud. 84-29 names a couple of scenarios. My point was not that you must be inside clouds to log instrument time. Rather, that it is not legal in the US to log instrument time in good visual conditions ( CAVOK specifically was the term used) merely because you were on an IFR flight plan, you actually have to be in conditions which require flight by reference to instruments. That my be legal in Oz, I don't pretend to know. But for an absolute fact it is not legal to log instrument time on a clear sunny day in the US, merely because you're on an IFR flight plan. Neither the applicable regulation nor the 84-29 legal interpretation can be interpreted to allow that.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 13:23
  #877 (permalink)  
 
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A Squared,
As I said, it is not a thing the FAA gets hung up about, unlike CASA, who treat log books as a happy hunting ground for insignificant errors of no safety significance, but criminal offenses all.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 30th Mar 2018, 10:38
  #878 (permalink)  
 
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It’s your logbook..you can write anything in it you like. Stick pictures, use white out..whatever. Just write a note on the inside cover saying ‘I payed for this book and I reserve the right to decide how I fill it in myself’

(It might not go down well in interviews but don’t compromise)
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Old 30th Mar 2018, 11:06
  #879 (permalink)  
 
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It’s your logbook..you can write anything in it you like. Stick pictures, use white out..whatever. Just write a note on the inside cover saying ‘I payed for this book and I reserve the right to decide how I fill it in myself’
mattyj,
If you are, in fact, a pilot at all, (as opposed to a troll) and licensed in Australia, and it is an Australian log book, I am afraid that the applicable regulations do not support your position, no matter how fervently you believe otherwise, and the penalties for not complying with said regulations are quite harsh.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 30th Mar 2018, 19:07
  #880 (permalink)  
 
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It’s been over 10 years since I used my Aussie ATPL and I pray I don’t ever need it again..the Australian Regs are like Aussie Rules football: totally made up and no one else in the world is interested
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