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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:59
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www.kiwiregionalairlines.co.nz

Ewan Wilson giving it another go, but this time not taking on NZ.

With high cost NZ cutting back, it probably makes sense to use low cost Saab 340's.

+ idea of using NZAF base on north shore of Auckland makes a lot of sense.

Wish him luck.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 01:39
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SAAB 340 is more expensive to run than a Beech, landing fees are higher, en-route charges are higher, cabin crew are required and moves from a part 135 to a part 121 cost structure to the regions who are already complaining why the cannot get $59 tickets from AKL to PMR!

Only real cost advantage is to use cheap labour!
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 01:47
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Not to mention the Government has already ruled out him being able to use the RNZAF base for operations. So between the old expensive aircraft, the inability to access his prefered base combined with his previous form in the area, I wouldn't be committing any money to this venture
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 01:57
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BNEA320, you'd be about the only person wishing EW any luck.

So between the old expensive aircraft, the inability to access his prefered base combined with his previous form in the area, I wouldn't be committing any money to this venture
You, and quite a few others too I would suggest.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 04:03
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was told by operator of Beech 1900 & Saab 340 that about same cost to operate, but one had 19 seats & other 33-37 seats, so 14 to 18 seats at no extra cost.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 04:04
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I don't think they have given up on using RNZAF base on north shore. AKL is one huge mess, like SYD.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 04:06
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think a lot of people in regional NZL who have been abandoned by NZ, would hope he succeeds in getting it off the ground.


Business types really don't care about the fare, they just want to be able to get to AKL or WLG without 1st driving for an hour or 2.


It was never going to be aimed at leisure travellers.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 09:57
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i dont think abandoned is the right word

regional fares will never match the $59 main truck jet loss leaders. nz'ers in the regions expect similar and the reality is that it simply costs more than that.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 22:13
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Air NZ is stopping flying completely to certain towns in NZ citing high costs.


That's complete abandonment.


NZ is a high cost airline & Beech 1900's are expensive per seat to operate.


We didn't mention $59 fares.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 22:16
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nope.


Plenty of regional routes in NZ in not too distance future, will have no air service whatsoever.


KRA just needs to fill in where NZ is abandoning routes.


Catch is, aircraft can't be in 2 places at once.


Maybe, KRA is an easy way to start flying domestically in OZ, with NZL aircraft, NZL crews, NZCAA rules not CASA & NZL wages & conditions.


Look at Rex, who now have ~ 52 Saab 340's. How long since they've made a loss ?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 22:31
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Air NZ is stopping flying completely to certain towns in NZ citing high costs.


That's complete abandonment.
No it is not that is commercial reality. The regions have been living in a fools paradise for so long that they think a ticket should be the same as a main trunk jet operation.

was told by operator of Beech 1900 & Saab 340 that about same cost to operate, but one had 19 seats & other 33-37 seats, so 14 to 18 seats at no extra cost.
The Beech is a particularly expensive aircraft to operate, however the SAAB is not much better on a cost per seat as you now have to pay for an extra crew member and the operational cost of part 121 is significantly higher.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 22:49
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spin it how you want flog.

some routes were costing money. the airline is privately owned and its primary job is to make money for its shareholders.

abandoned? you make it sound like airnz owes the regions something? maybe if kiwis werent so f tight and didnt jump on emirates/cathay/singapore or gobble up cheap jetstar fares like lollies you might have a point.

all the players in the market have a choice. and so does airnz.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 23:46
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Ewan Wilson and a new airline aside, there's all sorts of good reasons to make Whenuapai a dual use airport:
-It was once..it could be again
-There is precedent..Blenheim
-There are hundreds of thousands of aucklanders in the west and north shore very poorly served by AIAL
-AIAL has no understanding of aviation and is only interested in car parking and retail and deserves competition
-AIAL was involved in disgraceful conduct during the previous application and were lucky not to be prosecuted
-AIAL constantly lies about expanding to two runways but has no intention of ever doing so
-taxpayers own Whenuapai and at present, it is under-utilised with relatively low movements, taxpayers aren't getting good value for money
-NZAA is very poorly served by public transport

Etc etc
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 02:11
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The regions have always had to support NZ as it has been the only way to get anywhere.
Other carriers have stepped into fill voids in the past but as soon as they start to make progress Air NZ has squeezed them out, they will then continue to offer a service until they decide its not profitable then the cycle will start again someone new steps up in a year or two NZ will decide they want it back.
The people who jump on the likes of EK/SQ/CX are from the main centers who don't have to take an NZ flight to connect the regions dont have that option.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 02:22
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BNE320: Look at Rex, who now have ~ 52 Saab 340's. How long since they've made a loss ?
Don't they operate some routes where the state government subsidises the fare? Also aren't some routes controlled as to who can operate them? If that's the case then it's a bit easier to make money. None of that over here.

I have no problem with someone starting up to fill any gaps and the use of NZWP is a good idea, though AIAL will do what ever it takes to scuttle any such plan.

It's just the person who is spruiking these plans I have issues with.
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 22:31
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NZ is a high cost airline & Beech 1900's are expensive per seat to operate.


We didn't mention $59 fares.
Yes, NZ may have been a high cost airline but it was at least a good product, with excellent standards.

Business types are getting Q300's... I fail to see how a bunch of Saab's will sway them.

The towns which have been "abandoned" were due to low numbers. Whakatane might have supported a daily Q300 return but lots of folks were already driving to Rotorua/Tauranga because it was cheaper

Kiwi's are cheap and love to complain. Most of the complaints about route closures will be coming from people who didn't use the service or used it sporadically.

As for Ewan Wilson's latest Airline, it's all academic really. I'd be amazed if CAA gave him an AOC and the Route structure on the website is mind boggling. Almost looks like he gave a toddler a map of New Zealand and some crayons.
The markets abandoned where not necessarily cancelled due to low numbers but rather a dead end future or the need to help prop up other routes. TUO-WLG was usually well used, but a Q300 on TUO-AKL is going to be hard work in itself, let alone if you had to fill a Dash to Wellington too. WRE-WLG, another good route, but the Q loads ex WRE for AKL are hardly chocka so why not send em via AKL and pocket the difference?

And how much of the losses were due to crew shortages at Eagle and having to get charter operators in to fill the gaps??

Having said all that, the economics of the B1900 make it a basket case of an airplane and there is no obvious replacement so what'ya going to do? Pretty much what they have done I would say.

As for Ewan Wilson, I'm pretty sure the guy has never held an AOC himself so it's all new for him in many ways. Looking at this proposed route structure though, I'm pretty sure Air NZ can, via one stop options, compete with him on every single route he is proposing. It'll be a blood bath.
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Old 28th Mar 2015, 00:25
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Look at Rex, who now have ~ 52 Saab 340's. How long since they've made a loss ?
Rex makes profit through economy of scale, a new start up with a Saab will probably have operating costs per seat 30% higher. Rex has an extremely good working relationships with Saab, GE and numerous other parts suppliers, they do their own maintenance and own the whole fleet outright. I would guess Rex can operate a 340 for less than a leased 1900.

Don't they operate some routes where the state government subsidises the fare? Also aren't some routes controlled as to who can operate them? If that's the case then it's a bit easier to make money. None of that over here.
Although these routes make money, I'd say the main profit is from the competitive major regional routes. Apart from the Queensland routes the few others are non-subsidised, just exclusive rights.

A better example of what can be done with a Saab fleet is Silver airlines, all the majors had abandoned a lot of small routes in the US. Silver has shown they are still viable with the Saab and is expanding rapidly.
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Old 28th Mar 2015, 03:18
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At the end of the day if they start, NZ will just put one of its shinny new ATR 72-600 one at the same time at half the cost. Then it will be good by KRA.

They might have more luck with using Ardmore in Auckland?
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Old 28th Mar 2015, 07:42
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Business types really don't care about the fare, they just want to be able to get to AKL or WLG without 1st driving for an hour or 2.
You think getting from Whenuapai to Auckland City @7:30-9:00am is going to be faster than AKL International - City. And vice-versa, the North West motorway is a slow moving carpark from about 4:30....
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Old 28th Mar 2015, 11:36
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Originally Posted by BNEA320
was told by operator of Beech 1900 & Saab 340 that about same cost to operate
If an extra ~$200/hr is considered 'about the same cost' I reckon you should invest
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