airline seats being dumped en masse ?
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A race to the bottom. Not really. This is yield management at play. Stimulating demand. Advertising, get people online. Fare might be gone, next fare affordable, purchase.
Then additional extraction of ancillary revenue e.g. hotels, transfers, food and beverage, baggage etc.
Normal practice this far out by all airlines.
>>>>>>
not not for peak season Xmas holidays. This is a sign that forward bookings are well behind expectations. Normally a big % of people are now booked for Xmas school holidays & by all reports they have enquired, but not much money is changing hands (agents/wholesalers-we talk to them all the time)
Rather than dump seats, the airlines should be packaging with tour operators.
Most legacy carriers get very little of the hotel, transfers, food & beverage, baggage etc. whereas LCC's are good at this.
We now have QF, VA, FJ, DL, UA, NZ all dumping seats to LAX in big numbers.
Group of us want to go to USA in early JAN. If wait til 12JAN can get return for under $1k & we're talking reasonable numbers, close to 40.
We might have to split between flights/airlines, but sure beats going subload.
A race to the bottom. Not really. This is yield management at play. Stimulating demand. Advertising, get people online. Fare might be gone, next fare affordable, purchase.
Then additional extraction of ancillary revenue e.g. hotels, transfers, food and beverage, baggage etc.
Normal practice this far out by all airlines.
>>>>>>
not not for peak season Xmas holidays. This is a sign that forward bookings are well behind expectations. Normally a big % of people are now booked for Xmas school holidays & by all reports they have enquired, but not much money is changing hands (agents/wholesalers-we talk to them all the time)
Rather than dump seats, the airlines should be packaging with tour operators.
Most legacy carriers get very little of the hotel, transfers, food & beverage, baggage etc. whereas LCC's are good at this.
We now have QF, VA, FJ, DL, UA, NZ all dumping seats to LAX in big numbers.
Group of us want to go to USA in early JAN. If wait til 12JAN can get return for under $1k & we're talking reasonable numbers, close to 40.
We might have to split between flights/airlines, but sure beats going subload.
Last edited by BNEA320; 1st Apr 2015 at 23:44.
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Forward booking flat. So stimulate demand by discounting. Once one carrier does it, others follow to remain competitive.
You're not correct about legacy not making money on ancillary. There is money in it. This is why legacy airlines typically have package options in-house, versus using third-party wholesalers. But they will partner with some, paying them commission, and gaining the yield on the fare and other incomes, as they wholesaler will push the airline to the customer, and package the hotel from their inventory.
Airlines are in the business to transport people from A - B. If they have interest in wholesaling, they do package with tour operators. And most do it in different ways. Even the LCC's do it.
Airlines don't discount to loose. They discount to stimulate. Extract revenues through other means. This is yield management. Fare mix is key. Patronage is key.
You're not correct about legacy not making money on ancillary. There is money in it. This is why legacy airlines typically have package options in-house, versus using third-party wholesalers. But they will partner with some, paying them commission, and gaining the yield on the fare and other incomes, as they wholesaler will push the airline to the customer, and package the hotel from their inventory.
Airlines are in the business to transport people from A - B. If they have interest in wholesaling, they do package with tour operators. And most do it in different ways. Even the LCC's do it.
Airlines don't discount to loose. They discount to stimulate. Extract revenues through other means. This is yield management. Fare mix is key. Patronage is key.
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nope, it's all going pear shaped.
Just saw AUD$1000 inc return BNE or SYD/LAX departing late Dec or early JAN, coming home well before kids start school.
Scary things was there were lots of seats (hundreds, spread over a week) at these prices.
Maybe short duration sale, but panic has set in already.
Marketing people at some of these airlines, need to sharpen their act.
Just saw AUD$1000 inc return BNE or SYD/LAX departing late Dec or early JAN, coming home well before kids start school.
Scary things was there were lots of seats (hundreds, spread over a week) at these prices.
Maybe short duration sale, but panic has set in already.
Marketing people at some of these airlines, need to sharpen their act.
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We now have QF, VA, FJ, DL, UA, NZ all dumping seats to LAX in big numbers.
50% discount for group booking? dont think so
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$1000 return is on direct flights, not on flights via the the land of the long bleck cloud !!!
Who's talking about group seats ?
Group seats are never the cheapest.
The more seats you buy, the higher the price of each on average.
Who's talking about group seats ?
Group seats are never the cheapest.
The more seats you buy, the higher the price of each on average.
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airnz dont do syd lax direct. akl lax is similar pricing
it was you who mentioned group seats
and looking at virgins site, i cant see anything anywhere near $1k return for those dates
it was you who mentioned group seats
and looking at virgins site, i cant see anything anywhere near $1k return for those dates
Last edited by waren9; 7th Apr 2015 at 21:50.
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Each market has different booking curves. This is closely monitored. There may be seats, but these will diminish once uptake grows. Fare classes / types change on a regular basis. Sometimes daily.
Consumer demand is variable. This is stimulation. Not loss making. By the end of it, there will be sufficient yield strong fares sold.
There is a lot of capacity today. This needs to be rationalised. Depends on who goes first.
There is no panic my friend.
Consumer demand is variable. This is stimulation. Not loss making. By the end of it, there will be sufficient yield strong fares sold.
There is a lot of capacity today. This needs to be rationalised. Depends on who goes first.
There is no panic my friend.
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actually NZ does do SYD/LAX direct (direct means same aircraft; it does not mean same as nonstop)
No, we didn't mention groups.
& didn't say it was on Virgin site, it was Helloworld site, so no posting ****e.
There are still hundreds of peak season departures to LAX under $1100. Peak season for departures is up to 15JAN.
No T-Vasis, you don't seem to understand yield management at all.
You don't sell seats at $1000 in peak season, unless things are desperate, otherwise the public out there will think this is a normal type of fare & not book til they see it again.
Very scary !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, we didn't mention groups.
& didn't say it was on Virgin site, it was Helloworld site, so no posting ****e.
There are still hundreds of peak season departures to LAX under $1100. Peak season for departures is up to 15JAN.
No T-Vasis, you don't seem to understand yield management at all.
You don't sell seats at $1000 in peak season, unless things are desperate, otherwise the public out there will think this is a normal type of fare & not book til they see it again.
Very scary !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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otherwise the public out there will think this is a normal type of fare & not book til they see it again.
I think I have an idea, since I did it for an airline for a few years successfully.
It is stimulation due to flat demand, over capacity, and aggressive competition. That is it. You'll see.
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prior to VA/DL starting SYD/LAX/SYD in late 2007, standard peak season fares to LAX were $3300 on QF. Even airline of last resort UA managed to get $2500.
YIELD MANAGEMENT 101
Never ever drop the airfare in peak season to stupid levels, when you should be able to fill aircraft at high yielding fares.
Heard there may have been a mistake yesterday with the $1000 fares & stupidly like sheep, other airlines followed. (it seems kids fares may have been entered for adults)
Now punters will ask, when will the peak season fares be $1000 again or they go into airline websites & organise them to send out email airfare alerts for $1000 fares in peak season, which will never happen again (unless we have more pilot suicides or another SEP11)
YIELD MANAGEMENT 101
Never ever drop the airfare in peak season to stupid levels, when you should be able to fill aircraft at high yielding fares.
Heard there may have been a mistake yesterday with the $1000 fares & stupidly like sheep, other airlines followed. (it seems kids fares may have been entered for adults)
Now punters will ask, when will the peak season fares be $1000 again or they go into airline websites & organise them to send out email airfare alerts for $1000 fares in peak season, which will never happen again (unless we have more pilot suicides or another SEP11)
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actually NZ does do SYD/LAX direct (direct means same aircraft; it does not mean same as nonstop
As for NZ doing SYD/LAX "direct," LAX is predominately the realm of the 77W these days and the connecting SYD flights for the evening services are 104/704 or 118/718 which is usually a 772, the 763 or A320 also been common and the 77W the least used of all types. Different flight number, different type....not really meeting the industry accepted term of direct.
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OK point taken, but you can say SYD/LAX is direct on NZ when 777 all the way.
eg.
NZ118/NZ102
or
NZ104/NZ006
& yes at certain times of the year, SYD/AKL could be operated by different aircraft. Not sure if a 772 can do AKL/LAX with a full load, so maybe sometimes SYD/AKL maybe a 772 & AKL/LAX would be a 773.
Before QF flew BNE/LAX nonstop, the flight used to go BNE/AKL/LAX (did it myself around 2003 think it was) & yes it was the same flight number all the way.
Just read an article on Australia's massive housing bubble & if I had a big mortgage or any mortgage, I'd probably wouldn't be booking flights anywhere either.
Is all this going to lead to airline failures within next 12 months ?
eg.
NZ118/NZ102
or
NZ104/NZ006
& yes at certain times of the year, SYD/AKL could be operated by different aircraft. Not sure if a 772 can do AKL/LAX with a full load, so maybe sometimes SYD/AKL maybe a 772 & AKL/LAX would be a 773.
Before QF flew BNE/LAX nonstop, the flight used to go BNE/AKL/LAX (did it myself around 2003 think it was) & yes it was the same flight number all the way.
Just read an article on Australia's massive housing bubble & if I had a big mortgage or any mortgage, I'd probably wouldn't be booking flights anywhere either.
Is all this going to lead to airline failures within next 12 months ?
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Just read an article on Australia's massive housing bubble & if I had a big mortgage or any mortgage, I'd probably wouldn't be booking flights anywhere either.
source: RBA: Chart Pack-Household Sector
Many in the housing market are debt free or have small balances. It is only the new entrants or those with high LV ratio's that have been affected by the rise in house prices. Many have been completely unaffected, except by an increase in their equity.
It is a drawing a long bow to attribute falling airfares to this to rising houseprices. Correlation does not equal causation. You may wish to consider the possibility that falling interest rates leads to over-capacity (cheap debt ---> expansion) in many industries, including aviation.
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I think BNEA320 might be on the mark here. The Easter weekend papers were full of very deep discount fares. I just checked SYD-LAX return for Jan 2016, and VA are $1145 and QF $1245. For adult fares.
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The number of discounted seats will be minimal. This is interest stimulation. Forward bookings are likely lower than forecast. The airline(s) are stimulating the market to get traction. This isn't the first time deep discounts have been offered in peak periods.
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This thread certainly makes for interesting reading. As for seats being dumped; here in Australia yes, but what is happening in Japan makes me wonder.
I'm headed back there in late May for another glorious three months of Glider Towing and booked and paid for the whole trip there and back in early March. For the return trip in late August, all economy seats out of Chitose for Haneda were already booked!
Five months in advance.
And there was only one Business class seat left. So I really had no choice but to take it.
The fact that it was only an extra $AUD100 softened the blow a bit!
Anyway, I get reimbursed when I get there so no great problem
I'm headed back there in late May for another glorious three months of Glider Towing and booked and paid for the whole trip there and back in early March. For the return trip in late August, all economy seats out of Chitose for Haneda were already booked!
Five months in advance.And there was only one Business class seat left. So I really had no choice but to take it.
The fact that it was only an extra $AUD100 softened the blow a bit!
Anyway, I get reimbursed when I get there so no great problem
Just now I booked a return to MEL-LAX on AirNz for $790 for August!
Including taxes! It's on the website and bookable if you don't believe me!
What is going on!
Including taxes! It's on the website and bookable if you don't believe me!
What is going on!