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Jetstar Second Officer Plans

Old 16th Jul 2015, 22:11
  #101 (permalink)  

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Another thread that has lost it's way with the BS factor way above acceptable standards! Closed by popular choice.
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 21:10
  #102 (permalink)  

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We will try once more......... This time trolls and pests will be removed from the thread so the more intelligent can have a rational debate.
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Old 21st Jul 2015, 07:16
  #103 (permalink)  
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2 more 787's arrived this month. you'd think they would of liked some Second officers to run on them.
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Old 21st Jul 2015, 07:42
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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There have been some changes to the widebody FO minimum requirements recently.

JQ now require FOs to have ATPL prior to promotion to WB FO. This will mean the FO can act as PIC and a SO can be on the flight deck while the captain is on rest.

This would indicate to me that they are seriously looking at using SOs in the future... It could also mean they want to remove the restriction of the inability of rostering two non ATPL FOs on a heavy crew.... Time will tell.
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Old 21st Jul 2015, 12:05
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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The fact JQ has WB FO's already without an ATPL is just scary considering 3 years ago they were ZFT cadets.
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Old 22nd Jul 2015, 03:11
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Jetstar Second Officer Plans

Safest place for them is on the WB.
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Old 22nd Jul 2015, 08:52
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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That would be just under 5 years ago. We're averaging 850 hrs a year so that would put the average for the first group around 4000 hrs jet conservatively. Two of them are conducting the internal type ratings actually.

Most of us in the first few ground schools had ATPLs or weren't far off anyway.
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Old 23rd Jul 2015, 06:35
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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BA used to place cadets directly onto the 757 , then after 12 months allow them to fly the 767.

You should tell BA & UK CAA how scary and dangerous this practice is , and insist they stop it immediately. While your at it do the same for SIA & CAAS , who do the same in Sing, as did/do most Euro legacies

Tell the rest of Western Europe they are all wrong , and the think tank that is the Aussie GA/Regional Astronaut holds all wisdom on matters aviation.

What a backwards & inward looking place Australian Aviation is, bunch of hillbillies really.
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Old 23rd Jul 2015, 12:24
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Wink

How would you know what Australian Aviation is like Boat ? You've never been a part of it!
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Old 23rd Jul 2015, 22:47
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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FBN, ever consider whilst ever under the constant guidance and protection of an experienced Capt? So now you've gone from Q bashing to white trash talk.....such a professional!
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Old 23rd Jul 2015, 23:03
  #111 (permalink)  
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C'mon guys, forget FBN... Do you think they'll probably just give the second officers cruise types ?
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 02:44
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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The concept of using S/O's to supplement heavy crews has been around, worldwide, for a loong time and has been very beneficial.

It allows the company to reduce costs, this should be self explanatory.

For the pilots, it's a great way to, as it were, do one's "apprenticeship". This is ideal if the time as S/O was around 2 or 3 years. This is a great opportunity for a pilot with less experience, to observe and LEARN.

I was fortunate enough to spend 2 years as an S/O on international long haul operations before getting my hands on a 737. It was an amazing experience, learnt a huge amount from all crewmembers involved. I'm sure it could get a bit stale after a few years, though.
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 05:46
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Well the people who think SO exp is such a wonderful learning opportunity really only have that experience to reflect on , they never went direct to the RHS.

Compare who is in front after two years say a Luftansa cadet who would have over 1500 hours of 737/A320 FO time , two European winters done several hundred take offs & landings as to a back seater with ANZ, Qant etc

Not much of a contest even less so when you compare it to the BA guys who were RHS in a 767 one year out of flight school. Think you might actually learn more from doing it instead of "watching & observing"

Very few airlines use SOs , and those that do are almost all legacies that have had one or two little issues adapting to private ownership & real world competition, aside from Cathay of course. But then again Cathay don't pay Qantas SO rates of $150k to $260K.

The view of 90 % of airlines is that they want pilots as FOs , zero interest in SOs, jury is pretty much in you might think.

I asked the question earlier why does QF use SOs, on the daily flights to Singapore from Melb/Syd/Brisb when SIA crew these flights two pilots. Pretty short hop you might think, someone should take a look at it, might be able to save the company $10 million pa or so.

Suspect nearly all of the QF flights to Asia are crewed with 3 pilots when the competition uses two pilots.

Yes yes I know they are iconic , they are very special
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 06:03
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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FBN, your ignorance is only surpassed by your arrogance.


"I asked the question earlier why does QF use SOs, on the daily flights to Singapore from Melb/Syd/Brisb when SIA crew these flights two pilots."


You didn't get an answer because you didn't ask that question. Trying to make your argument more plausible, by stating that you asked a question and weren't afforded an answer, is childish. For the record, QF operate these routes 2 pilot


Now get back to the topic or off


While we are asking questions, are you ever going to be a part of the aviation industry? How is that cadetship application going? Or are you just going to throw rocks at the industry from the outside, all because you couldn't get in?

Last edited by angryrat; 24th Jul 2015 at 06:20.
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 07:03
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Not true was in Sing , last Nov & saw the SO as part of a 747 crew , think they were going to Bris. See SOs there all the time actually

Are there actually any routes that the A330 flies on where they actually need a SO , same for the A380 run up to HK

The unpalatable truth is that QF is overmanned to quite bizarre levels, and the use of three pilot crews when the competition is using two pilot crews would be costing tens of millions per year. You have about 200 SOs for the A330 , very very few routes the A330 flies on actually requires an SO

Then you pay them twice the industry average , average QF SO $200K , whereas for Cathay , Virgin (yes based in Australia also) , ANZ all pay around $100k.

If Jetstar strike a pay deal for their SOs of under $100k , well I think there will be a whole lot more 787s going to Jetstar instead of Qantas.

But when they get into trouble QF just tries to fleabag on the Aussie tax payer with Govt Secured loans & stuff
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 07:22
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Unless an Airline or Operator has an exemption, they would be governed by CAO 48 in relation to flight times and tours of duty.
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 07:23
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flyboat North View Post
Not true was in Sing , last Nov & saw the SO as part of a 747 crew , think they were going to Bris. See SOs there all the time actually
You realize you're debating this issue with people who actually fly for QF don't you? And you base your argument on seeing crew walking in terminal?
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 07:38
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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For info, my experience as an S/O was 26 years ago in Africa, never flew for Qantas.

So, I guess I my comments have a bit more backing than some wannabe who appears to have gained his VAST experience during the odd stroll through the airport.

I'm not saying S/O is better than direct F/O. It is a great way to be inducted into an airlines operation with less stress for all involved. This is probably more beneficial for those with less experience.
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 07:47
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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"You have about 200 SOs for the A330"


Oh do we? HAHAHAHAHAHA.... your number is so far from the truth it just shows how much you are talking out your . We don't even have a third of that you muppet


"The unpalatable truth is that QF is overmanned to quite bizarre levels"


Based on the previous comment, it shows how out of touch and wrong you are


"the use of three pilot crews when the competition is using two pilot crews would be costing tens of millions per year"


Two parts to this statement. Firstly our competition operate with either an S/O or an extra F/O on the routes that we carry an S/O due to legal flight time duty limits. You conveniently forget you were told this by a Cathay pilot Secondly, the tens of millions is made redundant by the fact that the competition carry an S/O or extra F/O and we have established that your figures are so wobbly it is ridiculous.


"See SOs there all the time actually"


Ah, the university student seasoned traveller I operate these sectors and have never had an S/O. The only time I have known of an S/O on a SIN sector is when the flight time has fallen outside the legal CAO limit due to strong winds.


The rest of your post is just fluff which you have tried to be antagonistic with. Go crawl back into your school books.
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 07:56
  #120 (permalink)  
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The facts:

There are about 55 A330 S/Os in Qantas.
The most junior of them has been in Qantas for 6 years now. They earn about $130K.
Year 1 pay after completing check to line for an A330 S/O is circa $95K rising to circa $115K by the end of year 2.
S/Os are only carried on routes to/from Asia where the flight and duty time limitations require them to be.

Current A330 S/O routes (return trips obviously):
SYD-BKK 9:50 stick.
MEL- HKG 9:40 stick
BNE- HKG 9:10 stick
SYD- HNL 9:45 stick.
SYD- MNL 8:20 stick*
BNE- NRT 9:15 stick
SYD- PVG 10:55 stick

*This used to be 2 man on the 767 in some directions on some days but the lengthy taxi out in sydney at that time of the day consistently pushed the blox time beyond 8 hours. CASA would have Qantas strung up if they were scheduling a service that regularly exceeded the limits.

Last edited by Keg; 24th Jul 2015 at 08:12. Reason: Typo on the SYD-MNL stick time.
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