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All Qantas Short Haul and Jetstar Pilots

Old 9th Dec 2014, 09:03
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All Qantas Short Haul and Jetstar Pilots

You all need to re read Carla's email:

"A key part of the cost reductions across the business is the minimum 18 month wage freeze with all employees have accepted (cough) or WILL BE ASKED TO ACCEPT........."

Ask...

That's all they are doing. Asking.

95% is the answer. Keep it the answer! It only goes to their pocket if you accept. Not the company, not a charity but to someone who would earn my annual salary in 4 weeks!!
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Old 9th Dec 2014, 09:23
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I agree and feel the mood swinging in Shorthaul, a lot are now going to reject any offer with a pay freeze, or if there is a pay freeze some incentive bonus in the future when trading terms look good, which looks like it's happening already..
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Old 9th Dec 2014, 22:12
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Don't EBA's generally have any pay increases annually? If that is the case with yours, why don't you offer a pay freeze for 12 months instead of 18 months as a negotiated compromise. If Management buy this, they can crow that they have some sort of pay freeze in place & pat themselves on the back & the troops will have no difference to what they would have had anyway. Might just be silly enough to work!
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Old 9th Dec 2014, 22:16
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or if there is a pay freeze some incentive bonus in the future when trading terms look good, which looks like it's happening already..
As far as I'm aware, every airline that has offered an incentive in the future for a pay freeze or a return to original pay after a pay cut, once they have returned to better trading conditions, has reneged. Be very careful about going down this road!
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Old 9th Dec 2014, 22:38
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The hypocrisy about this relates directly to the examples shown by senior executives themselves.
As they continue to demand a pay freeze, they fail to mention the amount of bonus shares they are entitled to under the long term investment plan.
Lets not for a minute think that the airlines results haven't been structured in a way to guarantee a success when it comes to achieving their bonuses.
The qantas annual report talks about the number of shares in the scheme, one has to wonder why the scheme has been loaded in a way since Nov 12 and beyond with upward of 25 million shares. Why???
And the arrogance of these people who think that it's fine not to acknowledge the schemes existence until challenge by some of the unions.
And then for Joyce to suggest that if pilots wanted a piece of the abhorrent scheme, they need a 30% base cut in their pay!
How about this one for all of us including Alan and every other senior executive in the joint, everyone gets paid a salary, no bonuses, and if you don't like it, well F^%% off!
Finally, every pilot in the group needs it to last longer than four years, that's why they need a future. The current awards, qantas and jestar, provide no security.
Security isn't an issue I suppose if you have your nose in the long term investment trough. Oink Oink.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 00:16
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Yeah it's just what one of the US carriers did post 9-11(either united or american, can't remember) Went out to the staff crying poor, got all sorts of concessions and pay freezes then the executives absolutely cleaned up on the bonuses in an airline that was basically bankrupt.

Nothing new in the QF strategy that's for sure.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 01:55
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After 9/11, some US Airlines went in to Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection as they were deemed too big to fail, as a result they received almost unrestricted exemptions to US fair work law equivalents. This has left many US pilots on food stamp eligible pay. (Colgan Air Q400 being the classic example)

Australia is a different market:

1) As much as nobody would like it, no part of the Qantas group is too big to fail. The Virgin group would pick up the slack, as was demonstrated following the collapse of Ansett. (albeit with Qantas and Impulse)

2) Despite last years results and rubbish return on equity, the Qantas group is a long way from going under,

3) Neither side of Australian politics is likely to give blanket exemptions to workplace laws due to "tough times" within the Qantas Group when it has been clearly established by the senate enquiry that many of the Qantas Groups poor results were arguably self inflicted. Hence no taxpayer funded line of credit. Regardless of your thoughts on this government, Joe Hockey has already flagged an "end to corporate welfare" specifically in relation to matters such as Qantas.

4) The post 9/11 problems that have characterised the U.S. Airline industry still permeate today as these marginal terms and conditions still apply and better managed organisations are forced to compete with carriers that, notwithstanding food stamp wages, would otherwise be deemed unprofitable and ultimately forced to go under.

Almost none of these circumstances apply in Australia at this point in time, despite AJ's desire for it to appear so. QF pilots have already demonstrated that post 9/11 and post SARS they will always sit down and talk about helping out their employer in the event of an actual crisis.

In the mean time however AJ can get his backside down at the negotiating table and negotiate in good faith.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 07:07
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Where has the "18 month pay freeze" mantra come from anyway! The original statement from Joyce at the announcement made on February 28th this year was that all open negotiations would include a pay freeze from that date until qantas returned to profitability. It has already been announced that all business units are already profitable and have been for a number of months now. Joyce has already been heralding the "amazing" business turnaround. I do not accept that a pay freeze is required in light of the management incentive plans being handed out, however if one is to be had, surely it will be in line with our illustrious CEO's stated agenda, from Feb 28 until a return to profitability (sometime around April or May by my reckoning!).
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 07:28
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Angel

The 18 month timing came in when they realised that they were going to be in profit when all the EBAs opened up at the end of this year. Or is that too cynical?
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 07:45
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Is it actually an 18 month pay freeze if the pay rises are 3% or averaged at 2.3%?. No. But don't let that stop the experts on here making an argument that it is.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 07:48
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If the choice is conspiricy or stuffup, take stuffup!

If you think about it, the original policy was unworkable. If you don't know how long it will be until profit, how long do you make the EA? What do you bargain for if there are no pay rises on offer? The answer is there could be no agreement because bargaining representatives are hardly going to trade anything away for a zero pay rise policy. So, it quickly became apparent that the original policy was going to be a complete failure ending up with open negotiations and being exposed to industrial action. There were other problems, but I think these were the main ones.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 07:50
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lotsa, why does it have to be one or the other? It could be both.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 07:51
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Bingo headmaster!

The only error in your post is beginning with "if you think about it". This is PPRuNe. That doesn't really happen much.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 08:08
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A pay freeze for 18 months is far worse than an average 2.3% over 5 years, because unless you blow your salary each week, you are losing investment power. A pay freeze for 18 months is a massive boon for management, that is why now no one is going to vote for any pay freeze at all.....bring it, PIA is the way forward...
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 08:10
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A pay freeze means your pay is not going up relative to 'something'. That something would logically be CPI. If you aren't getting 3% then yes, you are getting less. But you are not necessarily getting an 18 month pay freeze.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 08:21
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Well, AJ and everyone else involved is calling it an 18 month pay freeze, so what unique breed of accounting are you drawing upon?
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 08:31
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The one that says it's obviously an 18 month pay freeze compared to 3% annual pay rises but not an 18 month pay freeze compared to current CPI pay rises.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 08:46
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He'll be calling for an 18 month freeze on discretionary fuel uplift after the flight logs I've being seeing.
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Old 10th Dec 2014, 10:07
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Well I can say with almost complete certainty that no pilot will be accepting a pay freeze now that Alan and his buddies are handing each other bonuses
 
Old 11th Dec 2014, 00:54
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CPI is not the only measure of inflation. Try AWOTE, or perhaps a different basket of goods such as utilities, school fees, insurance and housing... The big ticket items that measure the inflationary impact on a typical family's budget.
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