Where has the "18 month pay freeze" mantra come from anyway! The original statement from Joyce at the announcement made on February 28th this year was that all open negotiations would include a pay freeze from that date until qantas returned to profitability. It has already been announced that all business units are already profitable and have been for a number of months now. Joyce has already been heralding the "amazing" business turnaround. I do not accept that a pay freeze is required in light of the management incentive plans being handed out, however if one is to be had, surely it will be in line with our illustrious CEO's stated agenda, from Feb 28 until a return to profitability (sometime around April or May by my reckoning!).