Arrest over cabin baggage dispute
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Good work to the JQ Captain for not taking any sh#t.
As for the seat recline......I am 6'3. If someone is completely inconsiderate and decides that having a few degrees of recline is more important than the person behind them then I just push both my knees as hard as possible into the back of the seat. Usually fixes the problem after 10min or so.
As for the seat recline......I am 6'3. If someone is completely inconsiderate and decides that having a few degrees of recline is more important than the person behind them then I just push both my knees as hard as possible into the back of the seat. Usually fixes the problem after 10min or so.
^^^^ likewise, I am over 6ft and if the person in front reclines and there are people sat either side of me they get knees right in their back. I don't try and do it on purpose but it is just the way it is, I have had a few people abuse me for doing this but I don't really have any other choice, can't just chop my legs off!
Nunc est bibendum
Square bear, have you heard of the physical violence these things have inspired in the USA? I'm not having that on my aeroplane. The pax either removes them of they'll be met by the wallopers and arrested.
I back my cabin crew to manage passengers seat recline appropriately during meal services and so on. At other times though, if a passenger wants to recline the seat, they can.
I also acknowledge that if they do, they may end up with the knees of tall people in their backs.
I've no problems with passengers and crew negotiating an acceptable outcome to all concerned.
Ps: I agree with Australopithecus. I'd love to see a national standard of 'not less than'.
I back my cabin crew to manage passengers seat recline appropriately during meal services and so on. At other times though, if a passenger wants to recline the seat, they can.
I also acknowledge that if they do, they may end up with the knees of tall people in their backs.
I've no problems with passengers and crew negotiating an acceptable outcome to all concerned.Ps: I agree with Australopithecus. I'd love to see a national standard of 'not less than'.
Last edited by Keg; 9th Oct 2014 at 21:12.
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I don't get this 'stop them from reclining' stuff. If an airline offers/sells/markets facilities and the passenger pays for it, then you as a fellow passenger can't deny them a product they have paid for. You can't deny them their seats recline ability. They have paid for it.
Common courtesy is another matter - and I am not promoting slam your seat back and squash the punter behind you. If you are tall, and find it an issue, then perhaps it would be worth investing in extra leg room...either by exit row seating, going to something like seat guru picking your own seat with more room, or fork out the dosh for an upgrade to the pointy end.
Common courtesy is another matter - and I am not promoting slam your seat back and squash the punter behind you. If you are tall, and find it an issue, then perhaps it would be worth investing in extra leg room...either by exit row seating, going to something like seat guru picking your own seat with more room, or fork out the dosh for an upgrade to the pointy end.
Wait a second. Because I am tall I have to pay extra to not be assaulted? How about you treat the seat recline mechanism as something other than a licence to injure the passenger seated behind.
Maybe those people who want to sit in the La-Z-boy section could pay the extra. Or learn to sit up straight like big boys and girls.
Maybe those people who want to sit in the La-Z-boy section could pay the extra. Or learn to sit up straight like big boys and girls.
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No I said if a tall person finds it an issue perhaps you should look at your options. I didn't say you had to pay extra.
One of your options is to endure the discomfort - this does not require you to pay extra 😬 Most economy passengers take some form of discomfort as a given.
One of your options is to endure the discomfort - this does not require you to pay extra 😬 Most economy passengers take some form of discomfort as a given.
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Bring back the old DC3 where there was plenty of leg room and if your carry on luggage didn't fit under the seat then you had it checked. It seems that as aircraft have become bigger the seat pitch has become smaller.
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So it is not OK for the person in front to put their seat back & cause you discomfort, but it is OK for you to insist that they keep their seat upright & cause them discomfort?
My wife was on a 14 hour SYD - DXB flight a while back & when she went to put her seat back a little in order to try & get some sleep, the 6 foot something guy behind her asked not to recline the seat, as he was finding the leg room a little challenging. She was quite annoyed that he would buy a seat where the leg room was tight for his frame & then cause her discomfort when she was trying to sleep. She had a right to recline her seat & he really had no right to prevent her from doing so. They eventually reached a compromise where she only relined part way. Both ended up uncomfortable for the entire flight.
The point is that it wasn't her problem, it was his. We can both appreciate his difficulty, but frankly, it is up to him to try to get around his height issue as best he can without inconveniencing others.
My wife was on a 14 hour SYD - DXB flight a while back & when she went to put her seat back a little in order to try & get some sleep, the 6 foot something guy behind her asked not to recline the seat, as he was finding the leg room a little challenging. She was quite annoyed that he would buy a seat where the leg room was tight for his frame & then cause her discomfort when she was trying to sleep. She had a right to recline her seat & he really had no right to prevent her from doing so. They eventually reached a compromise where she only relined part way. Both ended up uncomfortable for the entire flight.
The point is that it wasn't her problem, it was his. We can both appreciate his difficulty, but frankly, it is up to him to try to get around his height issue as best he can without inconveniencing others.
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"She was quite annoyed that he would buy a seat where the leg room was tight for his frame..."
Maybe when he bought his seat he missed the "legroom option".
I am currently looking for flights SYD - PRG and probably around 27 hours flight-time each way. I can find plenty of timetable options and airfare options, but no-where can I find the leg-room option. Perhaps you can assist?
Maybe when he bought his seat he missed the "legroom option".
I am currently looking for flights SYD - PRG and probably around 27 hours flight-time each way. I can find plenty of timetable options and airfare options, but no-where can I find the leg-room option. Perhaps you can assist?
If some prick stopped me from reclining my seat he would get a seat back smashed into his knees.
1/ he knew what class his seat was and that it wouldn't be roomy
2/ it's not my fault he is 6'
3/ how dare you take away my small amount of comfort I've PAID FOR.
4/ YOUR SEAT CAN RECLINE AS WELL
5/ If you wanted room you should have stumped up for Business class
Now fark off and stop imposing your tight ass BS on the rest of the world.
ME ME ME
1/ he knew what class his seat was and that it wouldn't be roomy
2/ it's not my fault he is 6'
3/ how dare you take away my small amount of comfort I've PAID FOR.
4/ YOUR SEAT CAN RECLINE AS WELL
5/ If you wanted room you should have stumped up for Business class
Now fark off and stop imposing your tight ass BS on the rest of the world.
ME ME ME
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Keg wrote
"the physical violence"?
Here's what the AP reported on September 3 -
Then the pilot diverted, landing in Chicago.
The Knee Defender product has been on the market for 11+ years, it's been shipped to people on all 7 continents, and that is the sum total of related problems - one incident, a jostled computer, and a thrown drink.
And, the man using the Knee Defender initially did follow the FA's instructions. But subsequently he did react badly, for which he's apologized publicly, repeatedly.
Now, a few days after that incident, an AA flight from Miami to Paris was diverted when a man became upset after someone reclined a seat, banging him in his knees.
Then a few days after that, a Delta flight to Florida was diverted when a woman became upset after a reclining seat smacked her in the head.
And so in those two subsequent incidents and diversions - in which no Knee Defender was involved - that's where there was some real physical violence. To a man's knees and to a woman's head.
I'm not going to try to convince anyone here about who's right/wrong regarding reclining/anti-reclining. I just wanted to offer up some background regarding what happened on 3 recent flights here in the US.
And yeh, I'm the guy who invented the Knee Defender.
Square bear, have you heard of the physical violence these things have inspired in the USA?
Here's what the AP reported on September 3 -
The dispute occurred on the final leg of Beach's trip back to his home near Denver. [...]
When the flight attendants came through the cabin to serve beverages, the woman said her seat was broken. That's when Beach told one of them about the Knee Defender. The flight attendant asked him to remove the device, and Beach said he did.
"As soon as I started to move it, she just full force, blasted the seat back, right on the laptop, almost shattered the screen. My laptop came flying onto my lap," he said.
Beach complained, saying that he couldn't work like that, but the flight attendant informed him that the woman had the right to recline. Both passengers were sitting in United's Economy Plus section, which offers 4 more inches of legroom than the rest of coach.
His reply: "You asked me to let her recline a few inches, and she just took 100 percent of it."
That's when Beach's anger boiled over. He said he pushed the woman's seat forward and put the Knee Defender back in. The woman stood up and threw a cup of soda — not water, as previously reported — at him.
"It was really just surreal and shocking. Did that just happen?" Beach recalls. "I said, 'I hope you brought your checkbook because you just threw your Sprite all over my $2,000 laptop.'"
The flight attendant stepped in quickly and moved the woman to another seat.
That was the extent of the "physical" interaction between the passengers: The woman banging her seatback into the man's computer, then the woman throwing her drink at him. When the flight attendants came through the cabin to serve beverages, the woman said her seat was broken. That's when Beach told one of them about the Knee Defender. The flight attendant asked him to remove the device, and Beach said he did.
"As soon as I started to move it, she just full force, blasted the seat back, right on the laptop, almost shattered the screen. My laptop came flying onto my lap," he said.
Beach complained, saying that he couldn't work like that, but the flight attendant informed him that the woman had the right to recline. Both passengers were sitting in United's Economy Plus section, which offers 4 more inches of legroom than the rest of coach.
His reply: "You asked me to let her recline a few inches, and she just took 100 percent of it."
That's when Beach's anger boiled over. He said he pushed the woman's seat forward and put the Knee Defender back in. The woman stood up and threw a cup of soda — not water, as previously reported — at him.
"It was really just surreal and shocking. Did that just happen?" Beach recalls. "I said, 'I hope you brought your checkbook because you just threw your Sprite all over my $2,000 laptop.'"
The flight attendant stepped in quickly and moved the woman to another seat.
Then the pilot diverted, landing in Chicago.
The Knee Defender product has been on the market for 11+ years, it's been shipped to people on all 7 continents, and that is the sum total of related problems - one incident, a jostled computer, and a thrown drink.
And, the man using the Knee Defender initially did follow the FA's instructions. But subsequently he did react badly, for which he's apologized publicly, repeatedly.
Now, a few days after that incident, an AA flight from Miami to Paris was diverted when a man became upset after someone reclined a seat, banging him in his knees.
Then a few days after that, a Delta flight to Florida was diverted when a woman became upset after a reclining seat smacked her in the head.
And so in those two subsequent incidents and diversions - in which no Knee Defender was involved - that's where there was some real physical violence. To a man's knees and to a woman's head.
I'm not going to try to convince anyone here about who's right/wrong regarding reclining/anti-reclining. I just wanted to offer up some background regarding what happened on 3 recent flights here in the US.
And yeh, I'm the guy who invented the Knee Defender.
You malignant dwarfs can opine all you want. I can assure you that in real life you'd be singing a different tune.
And have a look at the irony in the " ME ME ME" line.
And have a look at the irony in the " ME ME ME" line.
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but no-where can I find the leg-room option. Perhaps you can assist?
The point was that some here are complaining that people putting their seat back is causing them discomfort & stating that it shouldn't be allowed. However, they seem to miss the point that by not allowing someone to put their seat back is causing those people discomfort. Do you think you are so much more important than the person in the seat in front of you that your comfort at the expense of theirs is both fair & acceptable?
Does reclining your seat that 1/2" really make you comfortable? Half the time I see people recline their seat and then lean forward working on their laptops anyway. Don't see the point, let's face it economy seats are crap, even at there most generously reclined.
Back on topic, the reason I make sure I can take everything in the cabin is more to do with the massive bag checkin lines. Yes fair enough enforcing your cabin bag rules, but how about having more than 2 staff checking bags in. As has been posted, for years lcc's have been encouraging people to not check bags, checkin online, etc so they could cut back staff numbers.
Back on topic, the reason I make sure I can take everything in the cabin is more to do with the massive bag checkin lines. Yes fair enough enforcing your cabin bag rules, but how about having more than 2 staff checking bags in. As has been posted, for years lcc's have been encouraging people to not check bags, checkin online, etc so they could cut back staff numbers.
This is great. Here we alleged professionals are arguing about relative rights to cause discomfort to our fellow humans. Time for mandated minimum seat pitch standards, as I have previously mentioned.
The last time I was in an exit row the other punters were all much shorter than I. Perhaps the exit row should have a minimum height requirement, like a Disneyland ride? You must be thi-i-i-i-s tall to sit here! Otherwise it is grossly unfair to any beanpole who may turn up, is it not?
What a grotesque world this has become.
The last time I was in an exit row the other punters were all much shorter than I. Perhaps the exit row should have a minimum height requirement, like a Disneyland ride? You must be thi-i-i-i-s tall to sit here! Otherwise it is grossly unfair to any beanpole who may turn up, is it not?
What a grotesque world this has become.
Some great posts here.........Jesus wept!
The incredibly large amount of carry on luggage has stemmed from the fact that waits of around 30 mins were quite normal at the carousel. I commute and I must admit I try to take it onboard with me now to spare myself the wait at the other end.
However, on the rare occasion I do check a bag in, because most onboard have decided to carry their bag on, ironically there can be very few bags coming out on the carousel and the delay is often minimal.
The incredibly large amount of carry on luggage has stemmed from the fact that waits of around 30 mins were quite normal at the carousel. I commute and I must admit I try to take it onboard with me now to spare myself the wait at the other end.
However, on the rare occasion I do check a bag in, because most onboard have decided to carry their bag on, ironically there can be very few bags coming out on the carousel and the delay is often minimal.
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Minimum seat pitch would have to be law. Airlines try to cram in as many as possible for the product. The economics justify it, and the economics are a big factor for the passengers too. Good article in last months AA about it.
Seat recline is the passenger in front's personal space, not the one behind. Simple as that.
Seat recline is the passenger in front's personal space, not the one behind. Simple as that.
Regarding wait times for baggage at the other end....I often fly between Auckland and Wellington, and vice-versa with Air NZ and I have worked out a way to get my checked bag before most other people at the other end.
I wait until the last possible minute to check-in (using the self-check in kiosks) and I've found that my bag usually appears amongst the priorty baggage at the other end. I presume the reason for this occurring is most likely because they close-up the other baggage containers and keep the priority container open until the last minute before loading it into the aircraft hold last, so it will be first off, and that any non-priority last-minute checked-in bags therefore go into that priority baggage container.
It seems to work every time on that Auckland-Wellington route. I disembark from the aeroplane and by the time I get to the baggage conveyor, my bag has just popped out, whereas everybody else (except those with priority baggage) are left waiting for ages for their bags.
I wait until the last possible minute to check-in (using the self-check in kiosks) and I've found that my bag usually appears amongst the priorty baggage at the other end. I presume the reason for this occurring is most likely because they close-up the other baggage containers and keep the priority container open until the last minute before loading it into the aircraft hold last, so it will be first off, and that any non-priority last-minute checked-in bags therefore go into that priority baggage container.
It seems to work every time on that Auckland-Wellington route. I disembark from the aeroplane and by the time I get to the baggage conveyor, my bag has just popped out, whereas everybody else (except those with priority baggage) are left waiting for ages for their bags.