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Will Qantas Mainline ever hire another pilot on a permanent contract?

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Will Qantas Mainline ever hire another pilot on a permanent contract?

Old 6th Apr 2015, 07:34
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
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I would doubt it.

Unfortunately, keeping separate pilot group silos is an industrial tool they seem to enjoy keeping at the ready.

PG
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 10:31
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by crosscutter View Post
It may depend on NZ employment law and the contents of your contract but it's not clear cut. Is JC covered by Fair Work Australia law?
Pretty sure JC is not. some time ago I recall AIPA brought a case in Fair Work trying to change the QF SH Award to have it cover JC. A full bench majority (2 to 1) threw the case out
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 12:11
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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And should the jetconnect flying be absorbed back into QANTAS mainline, all jetconnect crew would be welcomed with open arms in mainline. At the bottom of the seniority list like everyone else.

Basically the same as what was done with VANZ.

I expect most JC Pilots would welcome that with open arms.
Im not so sure...couldn't see many current 737 captains happy being made a330 SO's....
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 14:40
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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"And should the jetconnect flying be absorbed back into QANTAS mainline, all jetconnect crew would be welcomed with open arms in mainline. At the bottom of the seniority list like everyone else"

Actually, it will work the other way around. When the red tailed 787's join the JC fleet there will be mainline pilots offered to crew the aircraft at JC on contract. The 737 op at JC was a test case for much bigger things.
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 23:13
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
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6 Apr 2013 00:00 UTC - 6 Apr 2015 23:05 UTC
NZD/AUD close:0.99286 low:0.80614 high:0.99780

Of course exchange rates and the cost of doing business have nothing to do with the IR realists within QF.

NZ dollar surging ahead
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Old 7th Apr 2015, 00:54
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Actually, it will work the other way around. When the red tailed 787's join the JC fleet there will be mainline pilots offered to crew the aircraft at JC on contract. The 737 op at JC was a test case for much bigger things.

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Old 7th Apr 2015, 01:01
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Yes Professor, right up the first accident and then let's see what happens then. Full Bench were lent on and ruled on juristrictional grounds. Senior Deputy President Drake summed it up as a "Sham!". The other two were bunnies. Jetconnect is nothing but a labour hire company. They do no sell tickets, they do not pay wages and if someone in Canberra asked the question they do not conform with the QSA. Nothing will be done in Canberra as they are all beholden to big business at the expense of Australian jobs.

With the Aussie dollar on the slide I can't see this as a cheap operation anymore. All this B#$^@*(t when the management should have been working on improving productivity instead of dividing and fighting the staff. ANZ consolidating while QF dividing at the expense of the shareholder. The depreciation($208 million first half better off then same period last year) will run out in 18 months and the tide will go out.
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Old 7th Apr 2015, 13:59
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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SixDemonBag, a most appropriate antidote to smug, ill-informed, market fundamentalist idiocy. Well done.

Last edited by Fool Sufferer; 7th Apr 2015 at 16:35.
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Old 7th Apr 2015, 17:52
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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"Yes Professor, right up the first accident and then let's see what happens then"

Why would there be an accident just because JC start operating 787's? Are QF the only adults that can fly big jets?
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Old 7th Apr 2015, 21:00
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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The 787/777/350/whatever type is coming to mainline, to be flown by mainline crew. Anyone dreaming about an external contract as a way home from the Middle East, or jetconnect getting them, are kidding themselves.

How could jetconnect possibly get them? If they were kiwi rego, every international flight would have to originate in nz with a stopover in Aus.

Read the integration award!!
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Old 7th Apr 2015, 21:27
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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why assume kiwi rego?

anyway. interestingly, when aipa went to fwa to try to get jet connect conditions the same, it was claimed they were about 40% cheaper.

now, with the 2 currencies at parity, what would that % be?
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 09:38
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Still 20% cheaper
currency in from 1.22 to 1.02 so say 20%
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 13:04
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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So is the business case 20% cheaper? Doubt it. Factor in that you would have to make every Tasman service a 787 and the blood bath that would ensure on the Tasman. Heavy crewing a Tasman service or occupying up to 4 J class seats at $2k return a seat. That's just for starters. Mainline will crew it, everyone else can keep dreaming.
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Old 10th Apr 2015, 02:45
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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kiwi registered aircraft can fly within OZ without restriction. They fly by NZCAA rules not CASA rules.
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Old 10th Apr 2015, 10:51
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Within Australia, yes. From Aus to other countries except NZ, No. Would need to negotiate bilateral rights, and in my opinion unlikely with a NZ AOC. Same reason Jetstar can't operate from NZ to pacific islands on their Aussie AOC.
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Old 10th Apr 2015, 12:08
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Bilaterals would need to be negotiated, yes that is the point. A challenge from any overseas country regarding ownership and control would kill this as we have seen in Hong Kong. The US would challenge this in a heartbeat.
Last week the court in Hong Kong was told Jetstar HK was controlled by the Melbourne office, playing into the hands of the Hong Kong Airlines challenging the setup of Jetstar HK.
The Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Act is a different matter and as usual not well thought out. The first service operated with NZ crew domestically in Australia would be challenged at Fair Work Australia and probably the reason why Jetconnect have not tried to do it before now. Wait 12 months and we will be all saying hang on the Kiwis are more expensive!
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Old 10th Apr 2015, 15:36
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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jq ran "tag" flights around oz with thai crew, fwa didnt care too much about that. 'spose they still do?

whats to stop jetconnect using the same flight number across the tasman with a 738 and then departing oz with a 789?

and airnz run syd-rar i believe. atleast jetconnect is aus owned

Last edited by waren9; 10th Apr 2015 at 21:58.
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Old 11th Apr 2015, 03:54
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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What do you do with surplus aircrew in these scenarios?

An interesting sidebar issue that no one seems willing to contemplate is what happens to the growing pile of surplus aircrew?

Under the current award, QF mainline likely has 400 surplus pilots on the books...a situation of their own making because they invented JQ and had an idealogical objection to employing most QF pilots in that division. Now they lament that they have too many expensive, underutilised pilots. Q'uelle suprise!

So those posters who expect Jet Connect to be grown at the expense of either mainline or JQ ignore that such a strategy would create even more surplus.

QF pilots are very expensive to make redundant involuntarily. Even the most junior pilot would cost over a hundred K in payments and cascading training costs.

When you project the net savings over a typical planning horizon you don't get any savings at all within the life of the average executive career. But, I suppose that somewhere there is a genius plan that calls for a thousand new hires paying to fly to support 2,000 surplus guys doing nothing on min credit guarantee. I for one certainly hope so.
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Old 11th Apr 2015, 13:57
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Waren9 - JQ used to run a lot of 'tag flights' around the country. They no longer run nearly as many.

Not long after one of the Senate inquiries, where the issue of tag flights came up, the practice heavily reduced and Buchanan left the group to spend more time in the cosmetics industry. I have a feeling that while FWA weren't particularly interested, other government departments were...

As to anyone wondering about the crewing arrangements - Norwegian Air Shuttle are leading the way in creative crewing with their 787 pilot base in Thailand. Lets just hope it doesn't come to that kind of arrangement here.
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Old 12th Apr 2015, 03:09
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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The Department of Immigration allows Flight Attendants entry on a Special Purpose Visa that allowed them to stay in Australia for 30 days. All they worry about is making sure they leave. Jetstar then found out that when these Flight Attendants left to do a service(Honolulu for example) this 30 days was reset. Wonderful precedent for Fly-In Fly-Out mine workers if attempted by the mining industry. Tragedy for Australian workers however. Lucky there is lots of coffee shops for Aussies to work in cause there will be nothing else. The next challenge is for the Tax Department however a Jetstar Flight Attendant earns less than the minimal taxable salary($15000), therefore tax-free.
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