MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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First post here, but have read for some time and could not stand back without commenting.
I'm curious, what is the purpose in passing comment on the Qantas pilots contracts? Why is this is a peculiar colloquialism of Australian pilots?
Similarly, why the need to continually denigrate managers? Many of these people are highly qualified individuals who, like the pilots, want the company to grow and prosper. Most managers earn far less than mainline pilots, notwithstanding that there are some at the very top of the organisation whose earnings make headlines. Surely most rational people realise that those earnings are the exception?
Managers do not sit up at midnight posting crap about pilots, the vast majority respect the crew and the job they do. Why is that not reciprocated?
I'm curious, what is the purpose in passing comment on the Qantas pilots contracts? Why is this is a peculiar colloquialism of Australian pilots?
Similarly, why the need to continually denigrate managers? Many of these people are highly qualified individuals who, like the pilots, want the company to grow and prosper. Most managers earn far less than mainline pilots, notwithstanding that there are some at the very top of the organisation whose earnings make headlines. Surely most rational people realise that those earnings are the exception?
Managers do not sit up at midnight posting crap about pilots, the vast majority respect the crew and the job they do. Why is that not reciprocated?
Most pilots were 'offered' those conditions when they joined Qantas, they are entitled to think that those will be the conditions for the duration of their employment.
Part 121, the "managers" often denigrated are the top level executive, not middle or line management. And when the pilots start delivering a long history of failure then management may indeed devote some forum time to our collective failings.
There is some angst at junior "managers" leapfrogging our long-held staff travel upload status. This despite the company insisting that we occupy a position analogous to a senior company officer. It is a violation of a previously understood compact between the pilots and the company.
Most of us lack the schooling and foresight to chase an executive position, but our hindsight is pretty good. Our sense of outrage at recent events and continuing executive level denial of what is obvious is shared with commentators world-wide, including The New York Times and Flight Global.
Ken Borough: thanks for that Fox News insight. Once again: everything was on the table three years ago but Joyce elected to lockout the workforce in a bid to get Fair Work to vacate the award. That failed, and the arbitrator kept almost all of the award provisions in place. But somehow that's our fault? Keep banging your emoticon head against the wall.
There is some angst at junior "managers" leapfrogging our long-held staff travel upload status. This despite the company insisting that we occupy a position analogous to a senior company officer. It is a violation of a previously understood compact between the pilots and the company.
Most of us lack the schooling and foresight to chase an executive position, but our hindsight is pretty good. Our sense of outrage at recent events and continuing executive level denial of what is obvious is shared with commentators world-wide, including The New York Times and Flight Global.
Ken Borough: thanks for that Fox News insight. Once again: everything was on the table three years ago but Joyce elected to lockout the workforce in a bid to get Fair Work to vacate the award. That failed, and the arbitrator kept almost all of the award provisions in place. But somehow that's our fault? Keep banging your emoticon head against the wall.
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Part 121.
True, Executive's do not denigrate their Pilots on a private forum.
They chose to do so in a public forum.
"Pilots living in cloud cuckoo land"
"kamikaze pilots"
"Pilots wanting facials & massages before flight"
"pilots earning a higher hourly rate than the a CEO"
These public outbursts gave reason for pilots to hold Executives responsible for their comments.
Pilots also hold these same executives responsible for the current financial state of the airline.
After all. AJ did declare the international business was in "terminal decline"
Well, blow me down. Because the same Long Haul pilots Agreement still exists & although new fuel efficient aircraft have failed to materialise. Management are now seeing the " greenshoots" of a recovery.
The list is long Part 121.
Should I mention, take a pay freeze now & we promise to negotiate a deal on new aircraft types. Jetstar will never be bigger than 12 aircraft. Or all FO's will be QF Captains within X years.
They have lost the trust of their crew.
MC.
True, Executive's do not denigrate their Pilots on a private forum.
They chose to do so in a public forum.
"Pilots living in cloud cuckoo land"
"kamikaze pilots"
"Pilots wanting facials & massages before flight"
"pilots earning a higher hourly rate than the a CEO"
These public outbursts gave reason for pilots to hold Executives responsible for their comments.
Pilots also hold these same executives responsible for the current financial state of the airline.
After all. AJ did declare the international business was in "terminal decline"
Well, blow me down. Because the same Long Haul pilots Agreement still exists & although new fuel efficient aircraft have failed to materialise. Management are now seeing the " greenshoots" of a recovery.
The list is long Part 121.
Should I mention, take a pay freeze now & we promise to negotiate a deal on new aircraft types. Jetstar will never be bigger than 12 aircraft. Or all FO's will be QF Captains within X years.
They have lost the trust of their crew.
MC.
Priceless AJ comment on ABC TV 'Mad as Hell'.
'But Qantas needs all the help it can get. You've all heard Alan Joyce say he's not going anywhere - that means the planes aren't going anywhere either!'
Too good not to share......
'But Qantas needs all the help it can get. You've all heard Alan Joyce say he's not going anywhere - that means the planes aren't going anywhere either!'
Too good not to share......
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Why would he go anywhere he is not being called to account by anyone over anything, so may as well keep taking the bucks until the gig is over and then he is set for life providing he avoids the regulators which is highly likely.
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why the need to continually denigrate managers?
QF should have continued being a success story as it had many things going in its favour, but the stupid ones at the helm appeared to have steered a very good ship onto the rocks.
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Part 121.
To add to what Master Caution supplied:
"Engineers are just glorified car mechanics"
"Modern aircraft need less maintenance" So... where are mainlines modern aircraft? You know, the ones that need less maintenance? Would that be the A330s and 737-800s, the oldest of which are now over 12 years old? If modern aircraft need less maintenance, why have I received about a dozen calls for overtime in the last few weeks? Why is it that 65 LAMEs who were just a few weeks ago "exiting the business" now being reinstated? Could it have something to do with the possibility that someone quite senior in Engineering management has perhaps "miscalculated"? That's a technical term for "****** up".
Over the years I have seen many managers come and go. Many have tried hard, done a good job, maintained their personal integrity, and have earned my respect by doing their best within the confines of a toxic and nepotistic culture governed by an archaic managerial mindset that belongs in the 19th century. The culture eventually wears them down and they move on to greener pastures. To lose one good leader is an accident: to lose many is incompetence. They are not recognised and they are not groomed. When these good people walk, it is a grievous loss to the company. Sadly I have also seen over the years a disproportionate number who have been useless, clock-punching snakes that I wouldn't trust to manage a pissup in a brewery. Sadly, the culture seems to select and prefer these creatures.
To add to what Master Caution supplied:
"Engineers are just glorified car mechanics"
"Modern aircraft need less maintenance" So... where are mainlines modern aircraft? You know, the ones that need less maintenance? Would that be the A330s and 737-800s, the oldest of which are now over 12 years old? If modern aircraft need less maintenance, why have I received about a dozen calls for overtime in the last few weeks? Why is it that 65 LAMEs who were just a few weeks ago "exiting the business" now being reinstated? Could it have something to do with the possibility that someone quite senior in Engineering management has perhaps "miscalculated"? That's a technical term for "****** up".
Over the years I have seen many managers come and go. Many have tried hard, done a good job, maintained their personal integrity, and have earned my respect by doing their best within the confines of a toxic and nepotistic culture governed by an archaic managerial mindset that belongs in the 19th century. The culture eventually wears them down and they move on to greener pastures. To lose one good leader is an accident: to lose many is incompetence. They are not recognised and they are not groomed. When these good people walk, it is a grievous loss to the company. Sadly I have also seen over the years a disproportionate number who have been useless, clock-punching snakes that I wouldn't trust to manage a pissup in a brewery. Sadly, the culture seems to select and prefer these creatures.
Last edited by Nassensteins Monster; 24th Sep 2014 at 12:54.
It always bothered me when people complained about the conditions/pay that they signed up for. Likewise, I don't understand why same types want to denigrate those earning more than they. You can't ask someone to sell their house and get a smaller car - they signed up to that!!
The Short Haul pilots will in all probability vote the EA offer down when it comes to the vote soon. It's not the money, it's the lack of respect. The total denigration of a reasonable career path and blatant industrial wedging using Jetconnect and Cobham. When you look back over the years and the lies of pacification it's obvious that the future will repeat the past. If both EAs are in negotiation concurrently it will ruffle the feathers of Joyce et al. The last thing they will want for his swan song term is another bout of turmoil and share price volatility.
"pilots earning a higher hourly rate than the a CEO"
Or in fact, is this the facts???
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Arnold E
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
This was despite a $2m bonus awarded at last year's annual general meeting on the morning before he historically grounded the airline. "What Qantas pays me as CEO is actually very conservative compared with other ASX 100 companies, and if you ranked salaries by hours worked I'm not even the highest paid person in Qantas because the pilots and senior captains get paid a lot more," Mr Joyce said.
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From The Australian article -
Seems that valuable lessons are soon forgotten! Unless of course, he doesn't feel he has "f..Ked up" anything since that time, back in 2003.
"It was a valuable lesson and it taught me this: If you know you've f . . ked up, admit it immediately, then take fast action to fix it."
Quote:
"pilots earning a higher hourly rate than the a CEO"
Is this the actual facts? or is this BS. If it is BS why is there not some legal action taken???
Or in fact, is this the facts???
"pilots earning a higher hourly rate than the a CEO"
Is this the actual facts? or is this BS. If it is BS why is there not some legal action taken???
Or in fact, is this the facts???
Otherwise, it might be a tiny bit of a fib. But legal action? I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure you can't sue a CEO just for spouting BS - more's the pity.
When you live....
But legal action? I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure you can't sue a CEO just for spouting BS
The interesting one is the Trade Practices Act - it could be argued that the CEO, in publicly uttering rubbish, is in breach of the act in the form of deceptive and misleading conduct. It's a reasonably easy case to win and you don't need to be a customer or anything - just an aggrieved party.
No spare seats on QF into/outa DXB for the past two weeks. Would be hard for even QF management to say your not printing money at the moment.
The Don
The Don