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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 15th Dec 2013, 08:21
  #1021 (permalink)  
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Another surprise grounding?
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 08:40
  #1022 (permalink)  
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One thing no one has adequately explained - or explored - is, WHY would Investors (institutional and individual), sit back and allow the value of their stock to diminish?
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 08:46
  #1023 (permalink)  
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It's all about the end game, walking away with pockets full of cash...
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 08:49
  #1024 (permalink)  
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Because the gimp has promised them something............
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 08:58
  #1025 (permalink)  
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I personally know several A380:

Captains earning more than $400K,

First Officers earning almost $300K,

Second Officers earning more than $200K,

and Flight Attendants earning more than $100K.
I also know a lot of people who quote their income including super and allowances too. And even more who add a bullshit factor into it.

I'm not saying that some people don't earn that sort of coin, but they are not in the majority.

Before you start saying that super and allowances are included and should be, if you really want to compare apples with apples, you need to consider that quoted salaries from the Middle East and elsewhere do not include the provident fund or allowances either.
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 09:06
  #1026 (permalink)  
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I kinda think it's ok that the Captain of an A380 is on 4 ung. What the [email protected] is it with people?
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 09:12
  #1027 (permalink)  
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$400k/1000 hours per annum = $400 per flight hour, I think that's reasonable.

I'm earning around $350 per flight hour on a turbo prop, of course I'm doing a lot less hours per year. If anything they are slightly underpaid!
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 09:21
  #1028 (permalink)  
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What sort of society are you striving for in Oz? Seems people want to tear down the salary of anybody earning more than they are?

Remember, people having their incomes slashed, destroyed or removed altogether has a compounding and terribly deleterious effect on society and the domestic economy as a whole. The effects are pernicious and far reaching. Those on low six figure salaries tend to spend a lot of their cash on things that prop up the local economy, eg: home renovations, restaurant meals, etc.

One individual's job loss or income downgrade means you are next in the firing line.

And unions ain't the enemy.
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 10:01
  #1029 (permalink)  
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Prime Minister Tony Abbott has urged Qantas to put a formal survival plan to the government and told the airline’s management and staff to “fight for itself”.

Speaking to reporters in Sydney on Sunday, Mr Abbott promised to work constructively with the airline if it put a formal proposal to the government.

“The important thing is for Qantas to put its house in order, and the important thing is for Qantas to fight for whatever it changes it thinks are necessary and desirable to keep it prospering,” Mr Abbott said. “That’s the important thing, for Qantas to fight for itself.

“Now obviously in the process of fighting for itself, it’s perfectly entitled to put a proposal to government. And when we have a formal proposition from Qantas we will respond appropriately.

Mr Abbott would not be drawn on whether the government would consider options such as offering debt guarantees to Qantas, or whether an alternative to amend the law to allow foreign ownership would be put to cabinet this week. The prime minister told the Australian Financial Review on Friday that it was not an unreasonable request by Qantas to have the 1992 Qantas Sale Act lifted.

“In the end Qantas won’t survive because the government has brought about a survival plan. Qantas will survive and flourish because everyone in Qantas from the highest in management to the lowest in staff has decided that they collectively want to fight to keep this iconic Australian brand going,” Mr Abbott said.

Qantas complains it is increasingly unable to compete against domestic rival Virgin Australia Holdings, which is majority-owned and bankrolled by three state-owned foreign airlines, *Singapore Airlines, Air New Zealand and Etihad .

Qantas is seeking short-term support and has expressed a preference for a government guarantee to shore up the airline’s credit rating.

On Saturday, Labor MP Matt Thistlethwaite said the restrictions in the Qantas Sale Act existed for a good reason.

“Given what happened to private equity in the global financial crisis you could probably fairly say if we didn’t have the Qantas Sale Act.....Qantas would not be here today,” he told Sky News.

Independent senator Nick Xenophon challenged Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce to show one dollar of profit since setting up Jetstar Asia and other offshoots.

“If the CEO Alan Joyce and the chairman Leigh Clifford go, that will transform the airline because they have presided over monumental strategic mistakes including the failed Jetstar experiment in Asia where they have burned hundreds of millions,” he said.

Tony Abbott wants to cut Qantas freeCorporate raiders circle ‘junk’ QantasAbbott cautious about Qantas guarantee
AFR Sunday
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 10:24
  #1030 (permalink)  
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Never mind CSMs on $100K, there are a handful of LAMEs on over $200K.
Haven't thrown a spanner or lead their crews for years, they are not DMMs or supervisors, just over paid paper shufflers on a perpetual secondment.
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 11:38
  #1031 (permalink)  
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There's more than a handfull of LAME'S approching and or exceeding $200k p/a
and some of them work quite hard !!!!!
this is why there about to attack the domestic engineering 44% shift loading-
starting with the SYD DOM TERM line maint group
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 11:59
  #1032 (permalink)  

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I kinda think it's ok that the Captain of an A380 is on 4 ung. What the [email protected] is it with people?
Great that you think that Jack.

What is interesting is that given the 'work rate' involved between the A380 and other aircraft types, there are a number of QF drivers (including many on the dugong) who think the A380 overpaid- at least as it compares to those other types and those relative work rates. That doesn't mean that QF drivers are underpaid on the other types either as most of those on those other types consider what we are paid to be reasonable and comparable with others around the world.

An A380 pay rate is about 23% more than mine. Personally I'd be quite happy to fly an A380 for that rate of pay and just get overtime minute for minute only when I go beyond the planned tour of duty. 787 on 767 rates- perhaps plus a percent or two given it's marginally bigger? No problem.
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 12:18
  #1033 (permalink)  
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Pay reductions are always a panacea and moral imperative for those higher up the food chain, those earning more than oneself, or others somehow deemed to be less deserving. Funnily enough people seem reluctant to jump to the head of the queue when salary diminutions are in the offing for themselves.
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 12:51
  #1034 (permalink)  

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Perhaps you're right fool-sufferer. Or perhaps they're offered because the current system has become distorted and is no longer recognisable from that which existed when the current 'rules' were put in place.

Of course, we can always cling to the current conditions the way that Holden workers did and see where that gets us.
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 15:19
  #1035 (permalink)  
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I am sure pay rates will have an over all good effect for the company. I guess the crews will be a little less mindful when selecting flight levels and cruise speeds etc. It would be easy to blow an extra few hundred kilos of gas out the back on the way down to melbourne. Payback is a bitch allan.
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 15:35
  #1036 (permalink)  
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Emirates declines Qantas equity

QANTAS partner Emirates has declared it has no interest in rescuing the Australian airline with an equity injection, even if the legislation barring foreign ownership were changed

The fate of Qantas is expected to be debated at a cabinet meeting tomorrow, with the government considering whether short-term palliatives, such as debt guarantees, are warranted.

Tony Abbott yesterday warned Qantas that it needed to take responsibility for its own fate and not look to the government for salvation.
The Prime Minister said the government was prepared to consider any formal proposals presented by the troubled airline, but said Qantas had to take the leadership.

"No government is going to fight harder for Qantas than Qantas will fight for itself. The important thing is that Qantas put its house in order. In the end, it won't survive because the government has brought about a survival plan."
While Mr Abbott suggested Qantas was yet to lodge a formal proposal, a Qantas spokesman said yesterday the company had been engaged in productive discussions with the government.

"We're not in a position to comment on those discussions other than to say we're certainly not looking for a handout from taxpayers," he said.
"We have previously called for a review of the legislative framework that is distorting the Australian aviation market. Access to foreign capital has become a major factor in this market and Qantas is denied the same access as its competitors. But ultimately, the Qantas Sale Act is a matter for parliament," he said.

He added that Qantas was pleased the government had acknowledged that it was not competing on an equal footing with Virgin Airlines, which has unfettered access to foreign capital.

While the government has indicated a readiness to consider changing the Qantas Sale Act, which restricts foreign shareholding in the airline, it would take time to get any such change through parliament in the teeth of opposition from both Labor and the Greens.

Labor infrastructure spokesman Anthony Albanese has said he would wait to see what the government proposed before commenting, but he would not accept the airline being foreign controlled.

Remarks yesterday by the Qantas's partner Emirates airlines, with which it jointly operates key routes through Europe, cast doubt on how readily Qantas would find additional capital, even if the legislative barriers were removed.
Emirates has been touted as a likely partner for Qantas, given the airlines' alliance.

But president Tim Clark told website AirlineRatings.com that Emirates would watch the situation carefully but it didn't have the "bottomless pit of cash" possessed by Virgin Australia partner Etihad Airways.

"So no, equity is not on the table," Mr Clark said.

As a short-term measure, the government may consider some form of guarantee of Qantas debts, although Treasury is known to be opposed to such devices.

As former transport minister, Mr Albanese had given Qantas a "letter of comfort" stating that the government stood behind Qantas, enabling it to raise funds.

Mr Abbott said the government was prepared to listen to any proposals that Qantas put to it, but he flagged that any government commitments would have to be consistent with the Coalition's values.

"We want to work constructively with Qantas to ensure that it has a bright future. We'll do so in keeping with our values and our commitments.
"In the end, we are a government which wants to see private businesses succeed and flourish. But it is not governments which build the prosperity of the nation, it is the individuals and businesses that build the prosperity of nations.

"Our fundamental objective is to liberate the individual and businesses of this country to be their best and most productive selves." Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
I guess Alan already has given them all they need .... where to now?

Last edited by TIMA9X; 15th Dec 2013 at 16:20.
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 20:51
  #1037 (permalink)  
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this won't help his mood......

Qantas Workers in talks with investors | thetelegraph.com.au

If nothing else it'll ruin Cliffords breakfast......
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 20:58
  #1038 (permalink)  
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UK Sunday Times report.

Qantas flies free of Aussie control
John Collingridge
Last updated December 15 2013 12:01AM

AUSTRALIA has cleared the runway for the next big deal in the airline industry by pledging to scrap laws that prevent its national carrier Qantas from falling into foreign control.
Tony Abbott, the Australian prime minister, has backed calls for the airline to be “unshackled” from laws that limit foreign ownership to 49%.
Qantas’s credit rating was recently downgraded to junk status by ratings agency Standard & Poor’s after a shock profit warning, triggered by rising fuel costs and falling passenger numbers.
The airline warned investors to expect a half-year loss of up to A$300m (£165m) and said it is slashing 1,000 jobs.
A merger for Qantas — part of the Oneworld Alliance, which includes British Airways — would mark the latest phase of consolidation for legacy carriers as they battle the booming Gulf airlines. American Airlines and US Airways last week joined forces to create the world’s biggest carrier.
Qantas formed an alliance with Gulf carrier Emirates this year to share networks and customer lounges. Emirates and some Chinese carriers are seen as possible merger partners.
Allowing Qantas, dubbed the flying kangaroo, to team up with a foreign partner would free it to compete on a “level playing field”, Abbott said. Rival Virgin Australia is backed by carriers including Singapore Airlines and Etihad Airways.
Qantas said: “Access to foreign capital has become a big factor in this market and Qantas is denied the same access as its competitors.”
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 21:41
  #1039 (permalink)  
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So how do you feel about the first class menu's, being in Chinglish?
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Old 15th Dec 2013, 22:04
  #1040 (permalink)  
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What, you mean they are trying to save some $$$$$'s

Qantas has shelved a project to replace a 26-year-old IT system that supports almost 10 million members of its frequent-flyer program because it would cost another $40 million to complete.

The decision highlights the pressure on Qantas to slash costs to retain a cash buffer and keep up the fight in the domestic market against a rejuvenated Virgin Australia.

Qantas has already forked out $20 million on the NewGen program begun in early 2010 to replace the existing frequent-flyer IT platform called Profile.

The new system was originally due to be rolled out within 18 months.

Insiders have questioned the benefits of the work on the new program so far but Qantas said the old system had been enhanced by incorporating elements from NewGen. Contractors were kept on until October to ensure part of the new project was bolted on to the old Profile system.

Those full-time Qantas employees working on the new system have since been sent to other projects within the frequent-flyer business such as the Qantas Cash and Acquire programs.

Qantas insists that, despite its age, the ''existing system is running well with the enhancements we've made'', although it concedes that a ''new system is something we'll need to consider in the future''.

Staring at a first-half loss of up to $300 million, Qantas has outlined a plan to axe at least 1000 jobs within the next 12 months and strip out an extra $2 billion in costs over the next three years.

It also has a team of internal strategists working on a wide-ranging structural review, which will canvas the possibility of partial sales of assets such as the frequent flyer division and Jetstar. The airline has yet to decide whether it will bring in external advisers to work on the review.

On Thursday it called for expressions of interest for voluntary redundancies among its engineering workforce but did not outline how many jobs were involved.

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce and his senior managers will on Wednesday meet heavyweights from unions representing the bulk of the airline's 30,000-strong workforce.

The ACTU is heading the talks, which will be the first time unions get an opportunity to hear about the business units likely to be hit hardest by the job cuts.

But, in a sign of divisions within the union movement, the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association has decided to boycott the meeting.

ALAEA president Paul Cousins said it had told the ACTU that it did not want it to bargain on its behalf.

''The ACTU has said that Qantas needs help. The truth of the matter is Qantas management needs removal,'' he said.

Analysts say large institutional investors recognise the challenges facing Qantas management but some are questioning its costly strategy of maintaining a 65 per cent share of the domestic market.

The strategy has forced Qantas into a fare war with Virgin, severely denting earnings of both.
Read more: Qantas IT system victim of cost cuts

The flip side though is from all reports the FF or Loyalty mob spend & waste more money than anyone, they believe they are 'god's gift to QANTAS'. Further, was told that the amount of items tossed out in the recent move from building next to Stanford Hotel (Sydney) office to the New Fort Fumble was sickening. People don't care but the joke is that the people who were/are responsible for the move and the new Campus, haven't got a clue, e.g. completely forgetting departments, not providing enough space/seats, no idea about current procedures.
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