Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review
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Not to be forgotten.
The minuscule may have forgotten or chooses to remain in the ridiculous position assumed by the ostrich during the mating season; but Pel Air ain't going away – not ever. Dolan is just a national embarrassment, the Pel Air report a national disgrace, the Canadian willing compliance in delaying publication is disgusting and the dismissal of some 60 safety system recommendations simply and cynically shows what the Australian public voted for. Hells Bells – the Chem-trails loons now how their own tame Senator. Shame on you minuscule, shame.
From Sandilands – Plane Talking.
From me – food for thought.
We care - Toot toot.
From Sandilands – Plane Talking.
There is a large body of privileged testimony to a Senate Committee on the inadequate role played by the ATSB, the lack of confidence the all party committee had in Mr Dolan’s contribution to the hearings, and the discovery that the safety regulator, CASA, failed to properly oversight Pel-Air and withheld from the ATSB an internal document which found that had it, CASA, done its job, the accident might have been avoided.
Why under the circumstances, should we believe Mr Dolan over his hand wringing for MH370 when he can’t get a simple Australian accident report right. Even the Coalition’s own review of Australian air safety regulations found that the Pel-Air report was an “aberration”, although apparently the government thinks its OK to leave this second rate report uncorrected on the public air safety records, where it is the object of derision.
Why under the circumstances, should we believe Mr Dolan over his hand wringing for MH370 when he can’t get a simple Australian accident report right. Even the Coalition’s own review of Australian air safety regulations found that the Pel-Air report was an “aberration”, although apparently the government thinks its OK to leave this second rate report uncorrected on the public air safety records, where it is the object of derision.
The sexual life of the ostrich is stranger than that of man.
At the height of the mating season she buries her head in the sand.
When along comes the male of the species and sees that ass flying high in the air,
He wonder's if it's male or female, and says "What the duck do I care?!?"
At the height of the mating season she buries her head in the sand.
When along comes the male of the species and sees that ass flying high in the air,
He wonder's if it's male or female, and says "What the duck do I care?!?"
Last edited by Kharon; 23rd Oct 2014 at 05:02.
Murky connections??
Kharon - The minuscule may have forgotten or choose to remain in the ridiculous position assumed by the ostrich during the mating season; but Pel Air ain't going away – not ever. Dolan is just a national embarrassment, the Pel Air report a national disgrace, the Canadian willing compliance in delaying publication is disgusting and the dismissal of some 60 safety system recommendations simply and cynically shows what the Australian public voted for.
:
Dan Dair
Posted October 23, 2014 at 3:55 am | Permalink
Much as I (& many others on this blog) can sometimes get a bit fed-up with Ben keeping ‘banging-on’ about the Norfolk Island, Pel-Air crash;
The fact is that the ATSB has made a rod-for-it’s-own-back over this issue & Ben is right to try to keep it in the public eye..
The Westwind FDR’s could be recovered for the amount they’ll spend on toilet paper, during the time it’ll take to complete the MH370 search.!!!
If anyone in Government or in the governance of the ATSB had any balls, (which clearly they haven’t (Nick Xenophon excepted)) they’d get this monkey off their back by recovering the FDR’s & having them independently analysed.
The results would either vindicate the existing report or tear it to shreds.
Either way, so long as the current, significantly flawed report is allowed to stand as the official record, the ATSB will be a laughing-stock
AND
any claims that it’ll have the “full confidence” of the rest of the world over this issue is as likely as if they’d given the job of co-ordination to the (deliberately disingenuous) Malaysian Government.
Should the MH370 search ultimately not find anything meaningful over the next couple of years, I’m reasonably certain that the Chinese & Malaysian Governments will be quick to point out the ‘well known’ failings of the ATSB & attempt to leave Australia ‘holding the baby’ for the mission-failure.
(perhaps if it actually got to that stage, the solution to recovering some of the nations self-esteem might then be to resolve the Pel-Air issue & publicly castigate those responsible for the original failings as well as the possible future) MH370 ones.??)
Posted October 23, 2014 at 3:55 am | Permalink
Much as I (& many others on this blog) can sometimes get a bit fed-up with Ben keeping ‘banging-on’ about the Norfolk Island, Pel-Air crash;
The fact is that the ATSB has made a rod-for-it’s-own-back over this issue & Ben is right to try to keep it in the public eye..
The Westwind FDR’s could be recovered for the amount they’ll spend on toilet paper, during the time it’ll take to complete the MH370 search.!!!
If anyone in Government or in the governance of the ATSB had any balls, (which clearly they haven’t (Nick Xenophon excepted)) they’d get this monkey off their back by recovering the FDR’s & having them independently analysed.
The results would either vindicate the existing report or tear it to shreds.
Either way, so long as the current, significantly flawed report is allowed to stand as the official record, the ATSB will be a laughing-stock
AND
any claims that it’ll have the “full confidence” of the rest of the world over this issue is as likely as if they’d given the job of co-ordination to the (deliberately disingenuous) Malaysian Government.
Should the MH370 search ultimately not find anything meaningful over the next couple of years, I’m reasonably certain that the Chinese & Malaysian Governments will be quick to point out the ‘well known’ failings of the ATSB & attempt to leave Australia ‘holding the baby’ for the mission-failure.
(perhaps if it actually got to that stage, the solution to recovering some of the nations self-esteem might then be to resolve the Pel-Air issue & publicly castigate those responsible for the original failings as well as the possible future) MH370 ones.??)
..& cringe-worthy) is perhaps a true reflection of the current status quo of the administration of aviation safety in this country...
However maybe there is another reason (other than an inept, seemingly disinterested miniscule asleep at the wheel..
) that Beaker still remains in the top bureau job?? 
First let me reflect on a "K" post from the Senate thread to do with Secondary Airports:
No one has as yet mentioned the 'redefining' of what constitutes 'air-transport'; you notice the Mrdak careful selection of 'words', for the devil is in the detail of 'his version' of the translation, he did after all redefine the meaning to exclude pretty much any class of operation bar 'heavy' RPT.
Perhaps an example of how AT maybe be re-defined is highlighted in the recently proposed amendment to CAO 82.0 'Carriage of Fuel on Flights to a Remote Island' - Civil Aviation Order 82.0 Amendment Order (No. 1) 2014and in the NPRM - Regulation of aeroplane and helicopter ‘ambulance function’ flights as Air Transport operations. Where it would seem that FF (at least) is attempting to bring us in line with the ICAO definition for...
"..commercial air transport operation (is) an aircraft operation involving the transport of passengers, cargo or mail for remuneration or hire."
Interestingly back before M&M became embroiled in the Commonwealth Govt Airport sell off/lease agreement project (& ultimately his rise to Dept head) both Beaker and M&M were on an equal footing in the ranks of the PS:
Mr Mike Mrdak, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Territories and Regional Support Division.
Mr Martin Dolan, First Assistant Secretary, Airports Division
However the point of interest is that Beaker (before going to COMCARE) had a significant role in administering the airport sell off, from Estimates Hansard May 2001:
Senator O’BRIEN—In relation to the government’s policy for the Sydney basin and the planned sale of Kingsford Smith airport, according to Mr Anderson, KSA, Bankstown, Camden and Hoxton Park airports are to be sold through a 100 per cent trade sale in the second half of this year, that is in the next six months. Is all of that on track as far as the department is aware?
Mr Dolan—The other Sydney basin airports are due for sale in the second half of 2002.
Senator O’BRIEN—So only KSA this year?
Mr Dolan—KSA is for this calendar year.
Senator O’BRIEN—And Bankstown, Camden and Hoxton Park?
Mr Dolan—Second half of 2002.
Senator O’BRIEN—So getting back to the Kingsford Smith sale, is that process proceeding.
Mr Dolan—Yes. Expressions of interest were sought and have been received. They have been evaluated and the results of that evaluation are currently with the Minister for Finance and Administration for his consideration.
Senator O’BRIEN—What is the government’s financial expectation from the sale?
Mr Dolan—I do not know. OASITO is the sale manager and they are the ones who are arriving at those sorts of valuations and expectations.
Senator O’BRIEN—What role does the department have in the sale process?
Mr Dolan—Our role is to ensure that the Airports Act is fully met and complied with in the sale process and that the sorts of objectives which are associated with the act are taken into account in the sale process. We are the regulators, if you like, in this process.
Senator O’BRIEN—So the department does not have any preparatory work to do in relation to the sale?
Mr Dolan—We had a lot of preparatory work to do in relation to the sale in terms of the information memorandum that is currently being finalised for potential bidders and in terms of a range of other sale documentation to ensure that matters covered by the airports legislation are appropriately reflected so that owners—I am sorry, bidders—make fully informed bids.
Senator O’BRIEN—I would have hoped the owners already knew. In his media release dated 29 March, Mr Anderson said:
Additional work will be undertaken by relevant agencies to determine the nature of airspace re-design, and terminal and runway developments required at Bankstown Airport to ensure that it operates as an overflow for Sydney Airport ...
He says in that statement that these changes will be ‘subject to the completion of environmental assessments’. Firstly, which agencies are doing that work?
Additional work will be undertaken by relevant agencies to determine the nature of airspace re-design, and terminal and runway developments required at Bankstown Airport to ensure that it operates as an overflow for Sydney Airport ...
He says in that statement that these changes will be ‘subject to the completion of environmental assessments’. Firstly, which agencies are doing that work?
Mr Dolan—Over time, a range of agencies will be doing work. The key work being done at the moment relates to the air traffic arrangements and will be done largely by Airservices.
The other work, which is to do with what we would hope to see from potential bidders for Bankstown in terms of developments in Bankstown airport, will probably be done in the second half of this year, after the bulk of the work on the Kingsford Smith sale has been completed.
Senator O’BRIEN—Who did you say was doing the work?
Mr Dolan—There will be work on the air traffic arrangements by Airservices Australia. We will work with OASITO and the Department of Finance and Administration, as the owners are exercising the ownership responsibilities of government for the current companies to look at the sorts of requirements or expectations we would have for potential bidders for
Bankstown, Hoxton Park and Camden.
Addendum - More on Airports from Oz Flying:
Senate grills Department over Development Threat
22 Oct 2014
The Standing Committee on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport (RRAT) has questioned the Department of Infrastructure about development on federally-leased airports.
The question was put during the Senate Estimates hearing on Monday night, 20 October in Canberra.
Senator Heffernan opened the proceedings with a direct question to department Secretary Mike Mrdak.
"What guarantees can we give the Australian general aviation industry that they will have airports at which they can land planes in the future, given the pressure on the land space surrounding airports by developers getting a quid by putting up high rise and aerials on top, et cetera?", Heffernan asked. "Do you see a risk from the power of developers co-operating with state governments to the future of general aviation operating out of the likes of Archerfield, Bankstown and other airports?"
Mrdak replied: "I think some concern is warranted in relation to the development pressures around our general aviation airports and our major capital city airports in a number of our cities. Quite clearly, as state planning policies come into effect seeking to increase the density of development in our urban areas, there is pressure to build right up to the boundaries, including in some high noise areas around our airports.
"There is also pressure to increasingly look at high rise developments which start to impinge on the PANS-OPS [Procedures for Air Navigation Services - Operations] and OLS [Obstacle Limitation Surfaces] services of the airports. There are two critical areas. Firstly, the Australian government is very firm in its view that these sites will be and must be retained for aviation usage as the primary purpose. Hence the master planning process for airports such as Archerfield is very much driven to making sure that sufficient aerodevelopment takes place on the site for continuation and there is no reduction of access for aviation.
"Secondly, as you would be aware, over the last few years under successive governments we have sought to work with the state planning agencies under a process called NASAG—National Aviation Safeguarding Advisory Group—where we have sought to get planning arrangements agreed with the states that mean we can protect the approaches to those aerodromes and we do not have development pressure which impinges on the safe operation. That process has been ongoing and it continues to be ongoing."
Senator Heffernan, who chairs the RRAT committee, returned to the issue later in the session, this time targeting the department's approval of the draft master plan for Archerfield Airport, asking Mrdak if the department shared the view that the master plan provided for the loss of runway 04/22, as alluded to in correspondance to the senate.
Mrdak: "Certainly, our view is not—as you have outlined—that that has that impact on the general aviation industry. The master plan has been carefully assessed, and our advice and the advice of the aviation regulatory agency is that the master plan does provide for a continuation of aviation operations. We would not share the view expressed in your correspondence there in relation to the impact on general aviation."
The Archerfield master plan was approved by Anthony Albanese under the previous government, but will be the subject of an upcoming appeal in the Australian Administrative Tribunal.
22 Oct 2014
The Standing Committee on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport (RRAT) has questioned the Department of Infrastructure about development on federally-leased airports.
The question was put during the Senate Estimates hearing on Monday night, 20 October in Canberra.
Senator Heffernan opened the proceedings with a direct question to department Secretary Mike Mrdak.
"What guarantees can we give the Australian general aviation industry that they will have airports at which they can land planes in the future, given the pressure on the land space surrounding airports by developers getting a quid by putting up high rise and aerials on top, et cetera?", Heffernan asked. "Do you see a risk from the power of developers co-operating with state governments to the future of general aviation operating out of the likes of Archerfield, Bankstown and other airports?"
Mrdak replied: "I think some concern is warranted in relation to the development pressures around our general aviation airports and our major capital city airports in a number of our cities. Quite clearly, as state planning policies come into effect seeking to increase the density of development in our urban areas, there is pressure to build right up to the boundaries, including in some high noise areas around our airports.
"There is also pressure to increasingly look at high rise developments which start to impinge on the PANS-OPS [Procedures for Air Navigation Services - Operations] and OLS [Obstacle Limitation Surfaces] services of the airports. There are two critical areas. Firstly, the Australian government is very firm in its view that these sites will be and must be retained for aviation usage as the primary purpose. Hence the master planning process for airports such as Archerfield is very much driven to making sure that sufficient aerodevelopment takes place on the site for continuation and there is no reduction of access for aviation.
"Secondly, as you would be aware, over the last few years under successive governments we have sought to work with the state planning agencies under a process called NASAG—National Aviation Safeguarding Advisory Group—where we have sought to get planning arrangements agreed with the states that mean we can protect the approaches to those aerodromes and we do not have development pressure which impinges on the safe operation. That process has been ongoing and it continues to be ongoing."
Senator Heffernan, who chairs the RRAT committee, returned to the issue later in the session, this time targeting the department's approval of the draft master plan for Archerfield Airport, asking Mrdak if the department shared the view that the master plan provided for the loss of runway 04/22, as alluded to in correspondance to the senate.
Mrdak: "Certainly, our view is not—as you have outlined—that that has that impact on the general aviation industry. The master plan has been carefully assessed, and our advice and the advice of the aviation regulatory agency is that the master plan does provide for a continuation of aviation operations. We would not share the view expressed in your correspondence there in relation to the impact on general aviation."
The Archerfield master plan was approved by Anthony Albanese under the previous government, but will be the subject of an upcoming appeal in the Australian Administrative Tribunal.
MTF...
Last edited by Sarcs; 23rd Oct 2014 at 01:35.
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"MURKY"!!!
Sarc's old mate, About as murky as a mud puddle and the transactions about as transparent as a fart in a thunderstorm.
Some questions about rumors:
What company holds the head lease to KSA?
Is that companies place of business registered in the Bahamas?
Is the Bahamas known as a Tax haven?
What has the turnover for the operators of KSA been since they took control?
What is the $$ proportion spent by the operators of KSA on direct operational aviation infrastructure compared to non aviation infrastructure since they took control of the airport?
How much tax has the operator of KSA paid since they took control?
With regards to the GA airports:
Was the leasing arrangement for these airports under the jurisdiction of NSW State law?
If so, was stamp duty paid to the NSW government?
Was compensation paid to any rightful owners or their heirs of Camden airport by the commonwealth?
Was the ability for freehold sale of Hoxton park a condition required by the lessee?
Since Hoxton Park has been turned into an Industrial Park and developed as a 24/7 interstate truck depot, are there noise complaints from residents living adjacent to this Depot?
Are there issues with the commonwealth being able to provide title to the land at Hoxton Park to the developers?
Has the Commonwealth paid compensation to any rightful owners or their heirs, of the land at Hoxton Park?
Have the developers of Hoxton Park had to make complicated trusts to disguise any Title issue with the Commonwealth?
And before the Gov. trolls let loose, I have doc's
Sarc's old mate, About as murky as a mud puddle and the transactions about as transparent as a fart in a thunderstorm.
Some questions about rumors:
What company holds the head lease to KSA?
Is that companies place of business registered in the Bahamas?
Is the Bahamas known as a Tax haven?
What has the turnover for the operators of KSA been since they took control?
What is the $$ proportion spent by the operators of KSA on direct operational aviation infrastructure compared to non aviation infrastructure since they took control of the airport?
How much tax has the operator of KSA paid since they took control?
With regards to the GA airports:
Was the leasing arrangement for these airports under the jurisdiction of NSW State law?
If so, was stamp duty paid to the NSW government?
Was compensation paid to any rightful owners or their heirs of Camden airport by the commonwealth?
Was the ability for freehold sale of Hoxton park a condition required by the lessee?
Since Hoxton Park has been turned into an Industrial Park and developed as a 24/7 interstate truck depot, are there noise complaints from residents living adjacent to this Depot?
Are there issues with the commonwealth being able to provide title to the land at Hoxton Park to the developers?
Has the Commonwealth paid compensation to any rightful owners or their heirs, of the land at Hoxton Park?
Have the developers of Hoxton Park had to make complicated trusts to disguise any Title issue with the Commonwealth?
And before the Gov. trolls let loose, I have doc's
Last edited by thorn bird; 25th Oct 2014 at 20:49.
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One, from the Estimates pot.
There were some interesting 'side bars' from last estimates in 'Part 1'. The link – HERE – will get you there, but be warned, some of it is stultifying; so I've chased some timer marks to save sanity. For starters - this
Then, a little later there is an interesting passage of play – Hansard fails the reader here and without the 'vision' (as they call it) so to explain properly you need to watch the 'vision'; it is in the early morning session, Part 1 – starts at 01.06.00 – ends at 01.19. on the timer.
Ms. Nicole Spencer – is romping along, full bottle on even Bills blasted mudguards (which you can skip, but worth watching) answering questions almost from memory, details at her fingertips, from the magic manual which she seems to have put together with care. Certainly a good example of a public servant on top of the Senate game. Enter the dragon (Gasp) Part 61 and a mundane question; the previous smooth, easy flow of answers stops – dead. Suddenly the magic manual fails, long pregnant silence interrupted only by the frantic turning pages. Then the Murky Machiavellian crew weigh in – one would assume to fill the void; Mrdak and Wilson in full flight, question unanswered and the motley crew depart the 61 fix for less inflammatory topics. Apart from taking an inordinate amount of the limited time for others members questions; you get the feeling that Conroy is part of the team.
At least he's not piddling about with Chemilnecal Trails; or, farting on about smokers; or, bewailing the lack of federal coppers in Hobart, to protect 'important' personages travelling from there. Is there something in the Hobart water I wonder?
Anyway – FWIW – I thought it was all worth a post
As so it goes on; but the transition from swanlike graceful swimming, to faltering ugly duckling paddling is remarkable. I think the lady took a hit – for team MM. Bravo anyway.
Toot toot. (I figure if I keep blowing the houseboat foghorn, sooner or later the minuscule will arouse from his self induced Zen state and reconnect with the real world). Perhaps if I change the sound it makes, we'll get on better.
Houseboat Hooter :-
CHAIR: You are asking infrastructure questions. I might just see whether there is anyone else—I do not think there is. Does anyone have questions on corporate? Could I go back to the airport issue briefly? My understanding is that there is an appeal coming up with the AAT on the action plan for the Archerfield Airport Master Plan. As I am instructed, if permitted to stand unchallenged by the chamber representing the airport users, the Minister's approval (reversed reversal?l)would 'clear the way for Archerfield Airport Corporation to proceed with an irreversible and permanent downgrading of the critical aviation infrastructure that exists at Archerfield Airport. This includes the unacceptable loss of runway complex 04/22, the Archerfield Control Tower, the fuel farms and above all would obliterate many aviation businesses without compensation.' The correspondence I have here goes on about the 'land grab', which we are familiar with around airports. Is the department aware of this coming up as an appeal with the AAT; and is that your view of the consequences if it confirms the master plan, which was set up by a previous government?
Mr Mrdak : Certainly, we are aware of the AAT appeal against the minister's decision to approve the master plan. Certainly, our view is not—as you have outlined—that that has that impact on the general aviation industry. (not 'air transport' operations) The master plan has been carefully assessed, and our advice and the advice of the aviation regulatory agency is that the master plan does provide for a continuation of aviation operations. We would not share the view expressed in your correspondence there in relation to the impact on general aviation. (My bold and comments)
Mr Mrdak : Certainly, we are aware of the AAT appeal against the minister's decision to approve the master plan. Certainly, our view is not—as you have outlined—that that has that impact on the general aviation industry. (not 'air transport' operations) The master plan has been carefully assessed, and our advice and the advice of the aviation regulatory agency is that the master plan does provide for a continuation of aviation operations. We would not share the view expressed in your correspondence there in relation to the impact on general aviation. (My bold and comments)
Ms. Nicole Spencer – is romping along, full bottle on even Bills blasted mudguards (which you can skip, but worth watching) answering questions almost from memory, details at her fingertips, from the magic manual which she seems to have put together with care. Certainly a good example of a public servant on top of the Senate game. Enter the dragon (Gasp) Part 61 and a mundane question; the previous smooth, easy flow of answers stops – dead. Suddenly the magic manual fails, long pregnant silence interrupted only by the frantic turning pages. Then the Murky Machiavellian crew weigh in – one would assume to fill the void; Mrdak and Wilson in full flight, question unanswered and the motley crew depart the 61 fix for less inflammatory topics. Apart from taking an inordinate amount of the limited time for others members questions; you get the feeling that Conroy is part of the team.
At least he's not piddling about with Chemilnecal Trails; or, farting on about smokers; or, bewailing the lack of federal coppers in Hobart, to protect 'important' personages travelling from there. Is there something in the Hobart water I wonder?
Anyway – FWIW – I thought it was all worth a post
Senator CONROY: Can I refer to one saving identified by CASR, in particular part 21. Are you familiar with that one? You might have mentioned it earlier.
Ms Spencer : I did not mention that specific one.\
Senator CONROY: What is the value?
Ms Spencer : It would be in our list of 160 potentially.
Senator CONROY: What is the value of that saving for that particular one? You can gasbag. Let me hear about this one.
Mr Mrdak : We will get you that detail. I am not sure we have it with us. Can I take that on notice?
Ms Spencer : It is $500,000.
So far – so good, the lady earns her corn; then the stumble:-
Senator CONROY: I know that Senator Heffernan is going to be interested in this one as well. Could I ask about removing the requirement for a student pilot licence and pilot proficiency checks in certain circumstances, part 61? What is the change there that you have identified?
Ms Spencer : Sorry, if I can just have a moment to find that answer.
Senator CONROY: No worries.
Ms Spencer : Sorry, there are 160 to go through. Are there any other questions that you wanted to ask whilst I am looking for that particular one?
Senator CONROY: What are the savings? What is the change? Has a risk assessment been undertaken for this measure?
Mr Mrdak : The part 61 measures were the subject of many years of consultation and study in terms of the future changes. We will come back to you on notice with some advice from Civil Aviation Safety Authority, if you do not mind, on that one.
Senator CONROY: I do not have to release you, under the new standing orders, until I get the answers to my questions during the day. You should be advised that I am not releasing this section and, if necessary, will call you back on Friday under the new standing orders. You will be able to track this information down for me during the morning.
Mr Mrdak : I do not think I was giving you any indication I would do other than that.
Senator CONROY: No. You are taking it on notice, which means you did not have to come back. I am saying to you no, I am prepared to wait. Under the new standing orders I do not have to release you until my questions are finished. My questions will not be finished until you give me that information. No-one, when they get up from the table at whatever stage—Etc. etc.
Ms Spencer : I did not mention that specific one.\
Senator CONROY: What is the value?
Ms Spencer : It would be in our list of 160 potentially.
Senator CONROY: What is the value of that saving for that particular one? You can gasbag. Let me hear about this one.
Mr Mrdak : We will get you that detail. I am not sure we have it with us. Can I take that on notice?
Ms Spencer : It is $500,000.
So far – so good, the lady earns her corn; then the stumble:-
Senator CONROY: I know that Senator Heffernan is going to be interested in this one as well. Could I ask about removing the requirement for a student pilot licence and pilot proficiency checks in certain circumstances, part 61? What is the change there that you have identified?
Ms Spencer : Sorry, if I can just have a moment to find that answer.
Senator CONROY: No worries.
Ms Spencer : Sorry, there are 160 to go through. Are there any other questions that you wanted to ask whilst I am looking for that particular one?
Senator CONROY: What are the savings? What is the change? Has a risk assessment been undertaken for this measure?
Mr Mrdak : The part 61 measures were the subject of many years of consultation and study in terms of the future changes. We will come back to you on notice with some advice from Civil Aviation Safety Authority, if you do not mind, on that one.
Senator CONROY: I do not have to release you, under the new standing orders, until I get the answers to my questions during the day. You should be advised that I am not releasing this section and, if necessary, will call you back on Friday under the new standing orders. You will be able to track this information down for me during the morning.
Mr Mrdak : I do not think I was giving you any indication I would do other than that.
Senator CONROY: No. You are taking it on notice, which means you did not have to come back. I am saying to you no, I am prepared to wait. Under the new standing orders I do not have to release you until my questions are finished. My questions will not be finished until you give me that information. No-one, when they get up from the table at whatever stage—Etc. etc.
Toot toot. (I figure if I keep blowing the houseboat foghorn, sooner or later the minuscule will arouse from his self induced Zen state and reconnect with the real world). Perhaps if I change the sound it makes, we'll get on better.
Houseboat Hooter :-
Last edited by Kharon; 23rd Oct 2014 at 20:55. Reason: In the interest of learning 'the game' – as played.
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ASA have expensive issues ahead - remediating contaminated airport land!
I wonder why nothing has been said about the 39 airports that have contaminated land due to the chemicals used in ARFF fire fighting foam which has saturated and environmentally polluted a lot of land? My understanding is that ASA have a secret war chest of hundreds of millions of dollars squirrelled aside to cover this issue. Can anyone confirm?
I also heard that ASA have been sitting on their thumbs on this issue, and where it is becoming very complex and sloppy is that state governments in their haste to approve ridiculous airport land use plans so as to appease developers thirst for greed and profits, have now got a situation where developers may not be able to build on the contaminated land as it will need to be remediated first. The developers feel ripped off and don't want to pay for remediation, the federal government is ****ting itself as it (ASA) may/will have to pay out big dollars to clean up land they have allowed to be polluted, and they don't want any 'bad publicity'! Ironically a number of airport developments are ready to be started and some of the big airport owners (super funds, JP Morgan etc) are not happy that their precious assets and investments are being held back from development due to this issue!
I have heard that in reality this issue could run into the very very high hundred of millions, and beyond
Oh well, where is Greg Russell when you need him the most! Have fun Margaret!
P.S And poor Hoody. Yet again I see another potential poison chalice being thrust into his lap, so to speak
As Sarcs would say, if I may, MTF
I also heard that ASA have been sitting on their thumbs on this issue, and where it is becoming very complex and sloppy is that state governments in their haste to approve ridiculous airport land use plans so as to appease developers thirst for greed and profits, have now got a situation where developers may not be able to build on the contaminated land as it will need to be remediated first. The developers feel ripped off and don't want to pay for remediation, the federal government is ****ting itself as it (ASA) may/will have to pay out big dollars to clean up land they have allowed to be polluted, and they don't want any 'bad publicity'! Ironically a number of airport developments are ready to be started and some of the big airport owners (super funds, JP Morgan etc) are not happy that their precious assets and investments are being held back from development due to this issue!
I have heard that in reality this issue could run into the very very high hundred of millions, and beyond
Oh well, where is Greg Russell when you need him the most! Have fun Margaret!
P.S And poor Hoody. Yet again I see another potential poison chalice being thrust into his lap, so to speak
As Sarcs would say, if I may, MTF
Last edited by Soteria; 24th Oct 2014 at 02:18.
While on the subject of Airports??
Thorny perhaps in regards to some of your 'rumour QONs' - in particular GA airports - you could drop Beaker a line..
Given his penchant for facts & figures it is quite possible, that contained within the stuffing in his noggin, he may well be able to provide some answers for you, although you will have to pander to his ego & it wouldn't hurt to extract the puppet-master's hand (M&M) stuck up his 
....
While on the subject of Airports I note that the NSW Parliamentary Standing Committee on State Development yesterday released their report & recommendations from the inquiry into Regional Aviation Services.
Many of the recommendations, either directly or indirectly, require some sort of response/action from the miniscule and his department..
Examples:
preserved.
continued maintenance of the network of essential airfields across the state.
requires upgrades to be made to infrastructure.
Given his penchant for facts & figures it is quite possible, that contained within the stuffing in his noggin, he may well be able to provide some answers for you, although you will have to pander to his ego & it wouldn't hurt to extract the puppet-master's hand (M&M) stuck up his .... While on the subject of Airports I note that the NSW Parliamentary Standing Committee on State Development yesterday released their report & recommendations from the inquiry into Regional Aviation Services.
Many of the recommendations, either directly or indirectly, require some sort of response/action from the miniscule and his department..
Examples:
Recommendation 1
That local communities, the mining industry, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and the NSW
Government discuss opportunities to pursue a more coordinated approach to the provision of air
services that recognise the needs of local communities and the resources industry.
That local communities, the mining industry, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and the NSW
Government discuss opportunities to pursue a more coordinated approach to the provision of air
services that recognise the needs of local communities and the resources industry.
Recommendation 2
That the NSW Government write to the Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development,
to encourage the expansion of the current Direction 93, made under subsection 95X of the Competition and Consumer Act 1910
(Cth) to include pricing for other Sydney Airport services,
including hangar space, airline office space, storage facilities, and other infrastructure used byThat the NSW Government write to the Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development,
to encourage the expansion of the current Direction 93, made under subsection 95X of the Competition and Consumer Act 1910
(Cth) to include pricing for other Sydney Airport services,
regional airlines.
Recommendation 3
That the NSW Government write to the Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development
to encourage a review of the current slot allocation and movements cap systems in place at
Sydney Airport, which should include eliminating the 15 minute movement cap and the removal
of regional turboprop aircraft from the movements cap.
to encourage a review of the current slot allocation and movements cap systems in place at
Sydney Airport, which should include eliminating the 15 minute movement cap and the removal
of regional turboprop aircraft from the movements cap.
Recommendation 4
That the NSW Government write to the Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development
and request that the Federal Government consider the possibility of allocating a limited number
of the reserved regional slots into Sydney Airport to specific regional communities.
and request that the Federal Government consider the possibility of allocating a limited number
of the reserved regional slots into Sydney Airport to specific regional communities.
Recommendation 5
That the NSW Government in its correspondence with the Minister for Infrastructure and
Regional Development urge the Federal Government to amend the Sydney Airport Demand Act
1997 to ensure the access of regional regular passenger transport services to Sydney Airport is
Regional Development urge the Federal Government to amend the Sydney Airport Demand Act
1997 to ensure the access of regional regular passenger transport services to Sydney Airport is
preserved.
Recommendation 6
That the NSW Government establish a roundtable of stakeholders, headed by the Minister for
That the NSW Government establish a roundtable of stakeholders, headed by the Minister for
Regional Infrastructure and Services to develop an on-going funding arrangement for the
continued maintenance of the network of essential airfields across the state.
& R8 even goes so far as to criticise the legislation and (God forbid..) the regs...
) the regs... Recommendation 8
That the NSW Government write to the Minister for Transport and Infrastructure to note the
concerns of regional airports that they are overburdened and overwhelmed by the frequent
concerns of regional airports that they are overburdened and overwhelmed by the frequent
changes to civil aviation safety legislation and regulations. Furthermore, the committee
recommends that the NSW Government urges the Minister to consider the impact of security
and safety regulations on regional airports and encourage the adoption of a risk management
approach. The Minister will also be asked to provide funding to support regulatory change that
recommends that the NSW Government urges the Minister to consider the impact of security
and safety regulations on regional airports and encourage the adoption of a risk management
approach. The Minister will also be asked to provide funding to support regulatory change that
requires upgrades to be made to infrastructure.
Hmm..wonder if these future correspondences will remain piled up with the rest of the elephants gathering dust in the miniscule's aviation in-tray - especially given that the NSW Coalition govt will soon be facing the polls???
TICK..TOCK..miniscule you may have to WAAKKE U..UP soon...
Addendum: From - The Last Minute Hitch: 24 October 2014
Addendum: From - The Last Minute Hitch: 24 October 2014
...Senator Heffernan looks to be on the warpath over protecting GA airports from encroaching development. In the Senate Estimates hearing last Monday night he asked Department of Infrastructure and Transport Secretary Mike Mrdak what guarantees the department could give GA that they would have airports to land on in the future. The answer was worrying. As well as being in time-honoured officialese of the professional bureaucrat, it basically said that the government is committed to preserving the capital city GA airports, but the state governments were not being so co-operative with planning laws. In Victoria, the state government came out and made a supportive statement over Essendon. Perhaps it's time the other states told us clearly what value they put on their GA airports.
The opening question to the CASA group on Monday night was effectively "when are you going to appoint a CEO?" In ways it was pleasing to see that the senate committee couldn't get more info from CASA than anyone else could. The answer was "the next few weeks." CASA has known they needed a new Director of Aviation Safety (DAS) since February and we still don't have one eight months later. John McCormick didn't actually leave until 31 August, so you have to ask if they sat on their hands until then. Eight months is plenty enough to fill any position. Let's hope there's word soon...
The opening question to the CASA group on Monday night was effectively "when are you going to appoint a CEO?" In ways it was pleasing to see that the senate committee couldn't get more info from CASA than anyone else could. The answer was "the next few weeks." CASA has known they needed a new Director of Aviation Safety (DAS) since February and we still don't have one eight months later. John McCormick didn't actually leave until 31 August, so you have to ask if they sat on their hands until then. Eight months is plenty enough to fill any position. Let's hope there's word soon...
MTF..
Last edited by Sarcs; 24th Oct 2014 at 01:58.
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Chemicals or chem trails
Sunny,
I believe the chemicals are ones that date back to the 70's. They have contaminated multiple sites at each airport due to the various locations that fire fighting practise facilities have been shuffled around the airports over the decades.
I think the time for a Junior Minister for Aviation is long overdue. Minister farm boy is out of his league and depth, and the issues keep growing and growing and growing - just like the depth of a politicians trough!
Depends on the type of foam. A lot of foams are protein based and make excellent biodegradable fertilizer. AFFF is another matter.
I think the time for a Junior Minister for Aviation is long overdue. Minister farm boy is out of his league and depth, and the issues keep growing and growing and growing - just like the depth of a politicians trough!
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and the Caravan reached the Senate Estimates
I watched with interest, while sitting at the back of the Senate hearing room, Mrdack, Farquartson, Dolan being grilled by the Senator's.
The amount of time used earlier in the day by Senator Conroy certainly reduced the amount of time for Senator Fawcett. Will be interesting sarcs to see the QON's.
The caravanners were there and this report gives some views of the happenings in the estimates room.
and the report by the NSW Parliament directs attention as well at poor regulation and excessive changes by casa.
The amount of time used earlier in the day by Senator Conroy certainly reduced the amount of time for Senator Fawcett. Will be interesting sarcs to see the QON's.
The caravanners were there and this report gives some views of the happenings in the estimates room.
and the report by the NSW Parliament directs attention as well at poor regulation and excessive changes by casa.
Last edited by Up-into-the-air; 27th Oct 2014 at 00:54.
UITA,
Do you really believe that the theatrical comedy, at Senate Estimates, actually ever leads to any worthwhile changes?
(By the way.. Thanks for the Caravan updates that I requested on another thread.)
Do you really believe that the theatrical comedy, at Senate Estimates, actually ever leads to any worthwhile changes?
(By the way.. Thanks for the Caravan updates that I requested on another thread.)
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Ventriloquists and their Dummies.
Sarcs - [ & ] it wouldn't hurt to extract the puppet-master's hand (M&M) stuck up his – (unmentionable).
Good on the NSW team, I wonder if they have the juice to penetrate the ministerial coma; if it were Queensland – things may be different, as the small amount of grey matter available for minuscule use is dedicated to Qld elections. Perhaps if 'aviation' became a Qld 'issue' it would get 'sorted' with a speed Angel flight may yet come to enjoy. Who knows what secrets the tea leaves hold.
Hitch has penned an entertaining article which misses the point entirely – until it is accepted that GA don't qualify as 'air transport' and we are talking about GA fields – it's all a waste of pen, ink and paper. The devil is in the detail and non of our 'aviation' journalists along with the Polly's seem to grasp why MM is still quietly smiling up his well padded sleeve. Buy shares in Westfield if you want win the round; or, demand 'the facts' and look at the upcoming regulations – there is a story to be had right there; for the want of some digging and homework. But, good on Hitch for trying....
Not that anything will happen – on the wind is a very strong, part supported rumour that not only are the minuscules crew fed up, fielding the tidal wave of 'complaint' but the parliamentary colleagues and their minions have had a guts full of this aging, moribund satyr who has, through the Nats power base no one to answer to and can sit there fat, dumb and as happy as Larry until the Qld election is secure and transport to the nearest five star nursing home is arranged. Sod the country – secure the seats.
Strange indeed is the world of politics. – Australian style.
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Picking through the alphabet soup
The difference between AMSA and CASA is actually quite simple - AMSA has not had a Mafioso of shonks as it's backbone for the past two decades. The AMSA ship has been steered by numerous identities who although not perfect, have focused on the application of workable regulations, have wrapped their operation around a framework that is based upon safety, and they have retained relatively open and transparent dialogue with the industry they oversight. (I know I know Creampuff would be getting a chubby over such a glowing testimony!)
As I have said before but will not repeat again - CASA will not change, and the next DAS will be another worthless pint of bile. MrDak was re-appointed, 'Wake Up Terry' is being lauded, Beaker has been re-appointed. The Bored, under the direction and Chairmanship of Australia's most decorated spin director, continues to feed loads of bull**** onto Minsiter Farm boy's plate (while he attends BBQ's and flower shows), and the evidence of a future where nothing changes has been made abundantly clear. A glance into the aviation crystal ball (once all the poo has been cleaned off it) reveals more of the same tautological events - the IOS call out CASA and the ATSB, future Senate inquiries call out CASA and the ATSB, the cries for CASA and ATSB blood reach crescendos of immeasurable magnitude, while the echelons of Government corruptly protect it's out of control beast. Indeed this is a game not to be missed, a bit of fun for the armchair viewer and the aviation critique, a way to pass time and be entertained as the aviation bubble has it's life ebbed away, but it is nothing more than that - a sick, twisted, tautological piece of somewhat expensive entertainment.
So my kettle has boiled, I just got a few bundles of jerky out of the pantry, the beers are also cold and the popcorn has popped. Anyone want to come around to watch the next instalment of 'Farmer Truss Needs A DAS'? I have heard some of the potential brides are doozies!
As I have said before but will not repeat again - CASA will not change, and the next DAS will be another worthless pint of bile. MrDak was re-appointed, 'Wake Up Terry' is being lauded, Beaker has been re-appointed. The Bored, under the direction and Chairmanship of Australia's most decorated spin director, continues to feed loads of bull**** onto Minsiter Farm boy's plate (while he attends BBQ's and flower shows), and the evidence of a future where nothing changes has been made abundantly clear. A glance into the aviation crystal ball (once all the poo has been cleaned off it) reveals more of the same tautological events - the IOS call out CASA and the ATSB, future Senate inquiries call out CASA and the ATSB, the cries for CASA and ATSB blood reach crescendos of immeasurable magnitude, while the echelons of Government corruptly protect it's out of control beast. Indeed this is a game not to be missed, a bit of fun for the armchair viewer and the aviation critique, a way to pass time and be entertained as the aviation bubble has it's life ebbed away, but it is nothing more than that - a sick, twisted, tautological piece of somewhat expensive entertainment.
So my kettle has boiled, I just got a few bundles of jerky out of the pantry, the beers are also cold and the popcorn has popped. Anyone want to come around to watch the next instalment of 'Farmer Truss Needs A DAS'? I have heard some of the potential brides are doozies!
Last edited by Soteria; 25th Oct 2014 at 10:44.
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For mug punters only..
We have started a new 'book' for BRB members – but it's a Sweepstake this time. You tip your $10 bucks in (corporate cards not accepted) and the nearest date and time to the announcement of the Truss departure takes the pot. Precision is required by the adjudicators: date, time and importantly; the spin. The quality and accuracy of the 'spin' statement will be used to determine the outright winner.
We have decided to give Ppruners a hint – no guarantees on it's veracity as this is a fierce competition – but somewhere between 30 and 40 days is a popular (if slightly biblical) bet. The reason being that they (corporate services) are sick of replacing the carpet between the miniscule's office and the 'department' door and the track to Sleepy Hollow....
Toot toot..
We have decided to give Ppruners a hint – no guarantees on it's veracity as this is a fierce competition – but somewhere between 30 and 40 days is a popular (if slightly biblical) bet. The reason being that they (corporate services) are sick of replacing the carpet between the miniscule's office and the 'department' door and the track to Sleepy Hollow...
.Toot toot..
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Horses for courses
I don't like the look of the track, it's very soft, plus there seems to be a lot of geldings listed for this race. And knowing the history of those involved in this superlative racing event makes me believe the risk of a 'Fine Cotton affair' is high. The odds will be fairly tight also with a 90/1 long shot very unlikely. The bookies will be making a lot of money from some spurious early betting so it will most certainly be an entertaining main race to watch come race day, and one thin is for certain - there will be mounds of steaming horse dung littering the field once this event is over!
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Synopsis
Governments are meant to solve problems. They clearly haven't.
Regulators (CASA) are tasked with achieving that. They clearly haven't. (political capture)
Accident Investigators (ATSB) are tasked with establishing facts, they clearly haven't. (political capture and incompetence)
So the system here relies on competent professionals and deep pockets of passionate aviation owners.
How pathetic. It's a sad state of affairs. None of the above looks like changing, therefore, more misery. It will take a new Minister, a new DAS and a new Chief Commissioner ATSB all to be ALIGNED with a strategy for the future.
Individual heroics like the skull, or wimps like Beaker won't help. ALIGNMENT of minds is key. I know Senator Fawcett is a supporter of this approach. He needs to be heard!
Regulators (CASA) are tasked with achieving that. They clearly haven't. (political capture)
Accident Investigators (ATSB) are tasked with establishing facts, they clearly haven't. (political capture and incompetence)
So the system here relies on competent professionals and deep pockets of passionate aviation owners.
How pathetic. It's a sad state of affairs. None of the above looks like changing, therefore, more misery. It will take a new Minister, a new DAS and a new Chief Commissioner ATSB all to be ALIGNED with a strategy for the future.
Individual heroics like the skull, or wimps like Beaker won't help. ALIGNMENT of minds is key. I know Senator Fawcett is a supporter of this approach. He needs to be heard!
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Ou Est Le Papier?
Jinglie –"I know Senator Fawcett is a supporter of this approach. He needs to be heard!"
It's a sad case when even a man of Fawcett's calibre can be white anted by the likes of the Murky Machiavellian crew, but even sadder when, despite the Abbott rhetoric for the mug in the street about 'cutting both red and green tape, nothing of any significance has occurred. The compromised Truss denying that either he or the department have seen the "Canuck Soft White Papier" or that the selection of the bored or DAS has not been a placebo for the masses is a clear indication that even the Senate committee cannot and will not be allowed to mess with the mystique. The simple fact that the industry estimates was on after dinner (almost bed time) and only 30 minutes was allocated to ATSB and CASA speaks of priority of scale; that the rabble with 'other' agendas stole so much of the very short time given speaks volumes. Then to top it off, Chemilnecal Trails burned up so much of that time trying, not too subtly to score a cheap political point or two off MH 370 made a mockery of Fawcett and his crew. The sad part is - they allowed it.
If we must have Truss inflicted on the country, then 'aviation' needs to be taken off his desk and as far away from the 'department' as possible and placed in the hands of someone who is not suffering Stockholm syndrome and very, very aware of what goes on behind the closed doors in the corridors of power.
It's time to clean the clock, reset and wind; before it just expires for lack of routine maintenance. Aye - there's no so blind as those who will not see.
Selah.
Last edited by Kharon; 27th Oct 2014 at 19:34. Reason: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0YdMng1P4A
Sorry guys, it's game set and match to Mr. Mrdak and his complaint slaves in CASA and ATSB.
The only good we can do now is to continue to build the mountain of evidence of inefficiency, expense and perhaps duplicity, dishonesty and outright corruption against the time when three smoking holes appear in relatively quick succession and trigger a royal commission.
We told you so........
The only good we can do now is to continue to build the mountain of evidence of inefficiency, expense and perhaps duplicity, dishonesty and outright corruption against the time when three smoking holes appear in relatively quick succession and trigger a royal commission.
We told you so........
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CAsA Blurb
Terry just sent me an email. Everything is OK, got the survey results to prove it.
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 28th Oct 2014 at 00:17. Reason: Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high, there's a land that I heard was once in a lullaby..