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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 11th Aug 2014, 10:02
  #1001 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
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AMROBA - Lack of Government Action

Has the ASRR report and recommendations created a false hope of reform to aviation. Prior to the election, the LNP met with many in the aviation industry and pro-duced the LNP Aviation Policy that was supported by most participants in this industry. The government’s aviation policy published last August has industry support and many are now asking when will anything constructive happen.
Our vision for aviation in Australia is to help the industry grow in an environment that is safe, competitive and productive.”
Many changes need to happen so the industry can grow in a safe, competitive, productive environment. The reversal of current direction being taken by CASA to create a regulatory environment based on EASA “organisational structure” to all sectors of aviation would be a start. The Minister’s ASRR has produced a report with recom-mendations generally supported by industry partici-pants. This report would change the regulatory direc-tion of CASA but the government has not yet endorsed the recommendations.
‘The public and industry comment period on the Aviation Safety Regulation Review Report is now closed. The Government is considering its response to the Report's recommendations and other matters arising out of the Report.”
The fear and concerns from industry participants is that the bureaucrats reviewing this report will not endorse the recommendations because it will affect the size and responsibility of their future roles. We are aware of interviews being carried out by the same ‘head -hunters’ from Melbourne obviously working with the same criteria as previously used to employ the last 3 CASA Director of Aviation Safety (DAS). Will CASA end up with a new DAS committed to implement the Report or one that will continue on with the direction that CASA has taken under the stewardship of Byron and McCormick. Industry knows that it is others in CASA that are hell -bent on implementing EASA organisation structures to all sectors of aviation. EASA has accepted their blunder but not CASA. If the Report is taken honestly by the government, then the Civil Aviation Act will need to be amended so the outcome of the recommendations for CASA, CASA’s philosophy, its management structure and the development and promulgation of aviation standards comply with the criteria in the report.
Congratulations to Jeff Boyd being appointed as Deputy Chair of the CASA Board. Jeff has AMROBA support for this position and we hope that more aviation persons like Jeff are appointed to the Board. He is only one new ap-pointment, we wait anxiously for the rest to be appointed. The Minister must get the right people so the Board man-ages CASA, not CASA managing the Board.
Over the last decade, creating legislation has become the default approach to aviation safety. You can legislate safety in the design of products but it takes a lot more to create and maintain a safety culture with humans. The challenge to CASA is for them to develop and prom-ulgate requirement for industry participants to follow, without the need to “satisfy” CASA. If CASA standards were written as standards then there is no need to ‘satisfy’ CASA —all CASA needs to confirm is that the applicant/participant is following the standard. Real consultation died some time ago with CASA.
They have an attitude that their regulatory development pro-cess is best for safety without any consideration to the sustainability of the actual participants in this industry. You will get the argument from public servants that there are more than just the aviation regulatory requirements that are affecting the sustainability of various sectors of aviation. However, the same people point out that recrea-tional aviation is booming under a less rigid regime. If this regime is safe, then why isn’t it applied to all like aircraft in Australia? Why are some sectors discriminated against by the application of organisational requirements on sectors where the FAA, for instance, simply depend on individuals to take responsibility? Even if the ASRR Report recommendations were fully adopted, the rest of the regulatory system completed in 12 months, and the philosophy of CASA changed, will it enable the revival of those sectors that are suffering?
Even if the current regulatory system was revamped into the 3 tier system proposed by the Report, would there be a resurgence in those sectors suffering at present. It can, but it will take a determined DAS to bring back life into the aviation industry. All aviation can benefit if the new DAS creates an administrative structure similar to what the ASRR Report recommended and they have a re-sponsibility for safety and sustainability of their respec-tive aviation sectors. Adopting ASRR recommended international standards to all commercial aviation sectors would be the first step.
(From AMROBA newsletter - Volume 11, Issue 08 August — 2014)


Last edited by Sarcs; 11th Aug 2014 at 18:02.
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Old 11th Aug 2014, 21:34
  #1002 (permalink)  
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Waiting, for practice.

Apart from gifting CASA a subterranean, lethal weapon with a 'third' tier which is 'unnecessary' instead of an 'Advisory' method of compliance there is little to dispute coming from AAAA, AMROBA, AHIA and RAAA etc. All seem to be supporting the Forsyth report to the hilt. It is encouraging that even the 'traditionalist' Brits have seen the light. Bravo.

There is even a whisper that the Rev. himself is contemplating rolling up his sleeves and pushing, which is a sustainable rumour; a man like that would want to see 'his' report put to work, see the job done as it were.

Could someone turn on the miniscule's desk lamp; he might just see the piles of paper-work and get on with the job. Anytime soon would be good.

Is today DAS day???

Toot toot.
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Old 13th Aug 2014, 09:02
  #1003 (permalink)  
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What will be the departing angry man Mr Mc Comic's legacy be?

We know his arrogance and demeanour rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, alienated most of the industry, and put CAsA at odds with those they regulated.

Just what did he achieve in the time he presided as the DAS? other than sociapathic toxisity spread throughout his organisation, and a pathalogic race among his minions to see who can do the most damage to the industry. I think the Bankstown/Sydney warren is streets ahead, closely followed by Far North QLD.

From my experience, people involved in the commercial side of aviation are a fairly conservative lot, in fact I think that statement probably applies to most people involved in aviation across the board, it takes a lot to get them riled.

The GA sector in particular is generally too busy trying to stay afloat than devote time to really examine, digest and form an opinion on anything until its too late and change is forced upon them.

Will that be McComics legacy?

Through his arrogance he presided over the destruction of the Australian aviation industry?

Its hard to find an aviation association, magazine or web sight that doesnt contain concern and criticism of CAsA and their "Reformed regulation", yet Minister "WUSS" ignores the evidence, ignores the industry and ignores the advice from the very inquiry he instigated as well as the Senate of this nation.

Will history show that Mr McComic was the most powerful person in the land. More powerful than our Parliament, our prime minister or any of our courts. Where his officers could snub their noses at us all and operate freely without fear of sanction?

At the end of this month Part 61 will be upon us, inflicting more regulatory burden and confusion. With it, indeterminate cost burdens on an industry already buckling, and very soon, Part 135 which should just about finish the job.

No doubt, Mr McComic will crow that he made Australia the safest place on the planet for aviation.That will be because there is no aviation in this country.

Part 61 will export most of our flying training to NZ, maintenance will die because there will be nothing to maintain.

Minister WUSS, or someone who is awake in the Guv'mint, have a look across the Tasman!! The Kiwi's are leaving us for dead!!

I think I recall big, cigar chomping Joe mentioning how he admired what the Kiwi's were achieving.

Hey Joe, make sure you reserve the funds to massively subsidise assential services when the McComic legacy comes to fruition. Getting close now!

Last edited by thorn bird; 13th Aug 2014 at 23:38.
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Old 15th Aug 2014, 20:27
  #1004 (permalink)  
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McComic 5th column; Fart or Friction..

TB # -"What will be the departing angry man Mr Mc Comic's legacy be?"
BRB last evening ostensibly a preparatory meeting for cricket team selection and an international darts challenge; seems some Canadians fancy their chances; we shall see. A non related topic of conversation led to your question being examined, if not answered. It kicked off with the Tiger mess and devolved into a discussion of 'modern chief pilots'. A fair few of the guys have, shall we say, a passing knowledge of the GA world and how it wags and their input presented an 'interesting' point of view. Got nowhere near a majority vote; but they are still 'chewing on it' the CASA generated Fifth Column.

In short the argument goes like this; in the quest for compliance with some of the darker/sillier/whimsical, not applicable edicts of NFI-FOI, the 'traditional' CP types who will (would) send them packing with an earful have been 'overlooked' in favour of the Casaphile type who will either take the least line of resistance or gratefully accept and execute whatever Inutile or dubious proposal as 'the gospel'. Gee whiz, there were a lot of anecdotes to support the proposition; I do mean a lot.

The antagonists have demanded 'proof' positive of the protagonists; so I dare say the phones and Skype will run hot as it's a tricky thing to support, we shall see. But it's a tempting proposition. A long hard look at the hand selected, McComic anointed golden circle shows a definite 'type' in favour. It sort of makes sense that like would seek like all mates together. One fellah rattled off the names of half a dozen 'shoo ins' for CP jobs who had been rejected, some, even busted down to a lower license etc and an equal number of names which, perhaps, it is kinder to say would not stand a chance in a sane world.

More to follow on this; being neutral I'll probably end up refereeing; but, the Bankstown chronicles have been requested in the interests of a 'balanced' argument. This could end up a very interesting debate, considering other matters in play at the moment.

Thorny, you should now have the date for the next indaba, be a good night and seeing as you framed the question, you'd better get there to see what you started. Bring your darts and wallet.

Toot toot.

Last edited by Kharon; 15th Aug 2014 at 22:35.
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Old 15th Aug 2014, 20:33
  #1005 (permalink)  
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aww jeez Kharon, I had a hell of a time getting the lampshade off after the last one!!
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 09:03
  #1006 (permalink)  
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miniscule on Qanda..

Here's your chance ask the miniscule a question..: QANDA Monday 18th August

Go on I know some of you want to...
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 09:09
  #1007 (permalink)  
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A key recommendation of the Forsyth Report was that CASA adopt a three-tier system of regulations, which are 1. Act 2. Regulation 3. Plain-English Standards.
that quote has got to be the stupidest line I have ever read.

how about
1. a sensible act where casa isn't responsible for my actions as a pilot, I am.

2. plain english regulations that respect my skill as a pilot.

3. if there just has to be a third tier then lets have nicely printed casa toilet paper.
(to show that even in the bogs of australia we're thinking of them)

watching all of this is like watching a stockholm victims gathering.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 23:10
  #1008 (permalink)  
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Lampshades are not haute couture.

It's always the same story with newbee's. Mate, lampshades are only de riguer for initiation pow wow's and the like; but not for 'darts and debate' evenings (D&D). A D&D indaba is much more a 'pipe and slippers' sort of event; pints and the gentle plunk of a well thrown dart, gently applauded as it hits the nominated mark (a miss costs points). Occasionally (and I think TB has sparked one) debates require a hard hat and Wellie's, we managed to outlaw stumps, cricket bats and billiard cues, but sometimes well, 'nuff said.

The McComic legacy, the left over tenets of fear, intimidation, twisted law, emasculated operations departments and the removal of those that actively 'enforced', by fair means or foul the McComic diatribe will also need some attention; deeply ensconced and cunning as they are. Plenty of willing hands but Truss has the shovels locked away.

W8 has raised one topic which, if we go with reforms will require all the tact and cunning the 'advisory' panel can muster; it's a hot topic and the 'sides' have very strong arguments, pro and con. 'The only means of compliance black letter' or; 'Not the only means of compliance but our advice is....etc'. A pot boiler.

Then there is the unholy Part 61 to consider; although it seems the vast majority favour a public burning of the thing and unspeakable 'things' done to the 'inventors'. NZ part 61 for ever (with slight modification) seem to be in favour.

The Canadian report sitting in the Truss in-tray may be released by the appointed time; although a digestion period will be required and any response must be tempered with the decisions Truss makes and the new DAS must be considered, before any worthwhile discussion of that little 'ugly spot' is possible. The Senate MoP may yet alter the whole thing, again.

Aye there's a whole load of work to do; if Truss ever delivers the lumber and the nails turn up that is; meanwhile darts and limericks seem to the only pastime for the BRB to pursue; there are always rugby songs to help while away the time. "Why are we waiting, oh why, oh why".

Toot toot....
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 05:15
  #1009 (permalink)  
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I do sincerely hope that the new director of aviation safety (a nonsense concept if ever there was one) is a Canadian.

Break the bullshit australian way of embuggerated regulation by experts and bring in some "lets get it working again" sensible logic.

from my perspective the canadians have learnt lessons that the rest of the world have yet to realise.

canadian owner maintenance. brilliant concept.

provision to decertify a privately owned aircraft and maintain it on a stand alone basis. brilliant concept.

much of CAsA's problems lie in trying to enforce the nonsense of "Certification" on a population that can well understand aviation and don't need certifying of anything that is successful.
it has cost CAsA millions in lost law suits all because of the stupid way it persists in trying to do business.

imposition of wills arguments will never work in our egalitarian society.
far better to follow the canadian example and do what the people want.

in fact a read of canadian legislation shows it to have items unique to snow operations that would not be applicable here in australia.
but here is the rub.
if we introduced the canadian regulations in this country as a straight replacement of the voluminous garbage that CAsA has created there would be no actual impediment on safety. a great chunk of the regulations would be no less irrelevant than the garbage we have been dished up with to date.

can we have some sanity in this country or do I need to emigrate?
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 05:43
  #1010 (permalink)  
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based on the inaction of minister WUSS,
I'd be trotting along to the Canook embassy.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 06:44
  #1011 (permalink)  
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From a concerned constituent from the bush...

QANDA- From Cooper Pedy resident: Warren Truss heard on Aunty today...
Council told to widen Coober Pedy runway

Posted about 4 hours ago
Mon 18 Aug 2014, 12:13pm

Map: Coober Pedy 5723

The District Council of Coober Pedy says it appears to have no choice but to widen the town's runway.
New Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) regulations regarding runway widths come into place in February.

Mayor Steve Baines says council was under the impression the runway would not need to be widened but has now been told it does.
He says it could cost up to $500,000.

Councillor Baines says local government elections will make it difficult to complete the work in time.

"Our council will not be able to enter into a contract that exceeds $100,000 while in caretaker mode, that basically means that unless we obtain ministerial approval we will not be able to enter into the contract to widen our runway," he said.

"Although ... REX and Kendall have been flying into Coober Pedy for 20 years without incident, there now seems to be some requirement for that runway to be widened."
...also I have a mate, who has a couple of properties the size of Tassie, that sometimes require him to fly past beer'o'clock and he is now getting told by some foreign bloke in Canberra that being as he is colour blind he may no longer be able to do this legally... So my question is when are going to tell these d**kheads to get back in their boxes...???
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 06:59
  #1012 (permalink)  
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From the 26 May 2014 Estimates hearing of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee
Mr McCormick: I will ask our Acting Executive Manager, Aerodromes and Airspace Regulation Division, Ms Cheryl Allman, to give you the full picture.

Ms Allman: I have asked Mr Rick Leeds, Acting Executive Manager of Standards, to accompany me as this is a regulatory development project, particularly around the narrow runways. So I might defer to his expertise. He might, with your permission, be able to answer your question better.

Senator FAWCETT: Thank you. Mr Leeds?

Mr Leeds: As has been pointed out, we currently have a standards development project underway to amend Civil Aviation Regulation 235A which goes to aircraft performance, specifically as it relates to operations on narrow runways. What we are trying to do is separate the responsibilities. It is not an aerodrome issue per se; it is an issue for the operators and the aircraft and the performance of those aircraft operating on those runways. As the director has pointed out, we are talking to manufacturers of aircraft, like SAAB, and the development of aircraft flight manual supplements that support the performance of those aircraft. Where those flight manual supplements exist, then the operation of those aircraft can continue on those runways.

Senator FAWCETT: Where is that process at? If the community want to know, what certainty do they have that the only service to their part of a fairly remote bit of South Australia is going to continue?

Mr Leeds: My understanding is that we are about to write to the aerodrome operator at Coober Pedy to give him the assurance that the NPRM process is just about finished. We should be releasing the amended CAR 235A that makes it very clear what the operator's responsibilities are concerning having the flight manual supplements that support the operation of the aircraft on the narrow runways. Again, we have been talking to the manufacturers. They are keen to get involved to produce the documentation. We do not envisage that there will be any interruption to services to Coober Pedy .
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 09:18
  #1013 (permalink)  
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When the DAS becomes the Director General of ICAO in a few months, our runways will have to be as wide as they are long!

Time to find that number for the truck driving school.
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 10:05
  #1014 (permalink)  
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If that happens, it will be the end of aviation as we know it (or used too).
Quote from Apocalypse Now; "the horror, the horror"!
There are a lot of similarities with Kurtz and the Skull. Think about it! Is Wodger the crazed photographer?
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 11:51
  #1015 (permalink)  
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Bloody hell!!!..honestly you couldn't make this up...

Lets see...the wider the runway the safer it is??..okay Yup get that!

We have KSA runway 34/16..12,000 Ft approx.

So the theory is a runway 12,000 X 12,000 is much safer than a runway 12,000 X 45 meters.

What about a runway that's 12,000 ft long and 24,000 ft wide?..

Na sorry not long enough!!!

Not too many of us left that remember an all over field!!

OKAY.. fill in the rest of Botany bay, and de-mine Holsworthy...are we there yet????

How the hell are they going to fit Badgerys Creek into the Sydney basin??
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Old 18th Aug 2014, 12:14
  #1016 (permalink)  
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"the horror, the horror"!
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Old 19th Aug 2014, 09:25
  #1017 (permalink)  
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How long before the MMSM get suss on an ailing Truss?

Not sure if the Planetalking headline...Huh! Truss says 2nd Sydney Airport won’t grow all that much...was amended by design but the link heading at the top of the page actually reads...

"Has deputy PM Truss had brain fade over 2nd Sydney Airport?"

Oh well either way I wonder how long it will be before the MMSM start questioning the performance of a clearly more & more stage managed DPM??

More bad press for Fort Fumble..

Noticed that today Oz Flying had the following short article in follow up to their coverage (ref: CASA Advocates ASAAO for Community Service Flights) of yesterday's FF release of DP 13717OS
Angel Flight Reacts to Discussion Paper
19 Aug 2014

Angel Flight founder Bill Bristow, AM, has sent an e-mail to the organisation's pilots condemning CASA's Discussion Paper released yesterday.

CASA released DP1317 suggesting that passengers on community service flights need the protection of regulation, and that their preferred option would be for the co-ordinating organisation to take on responsibility of ensuring safe operation.

"We have previously made personal representations to Minister Truss's senior advisers on this matter," Bristow says in the e-mail.

"We take the position that the intervention of CASA is unnecessary, unwarranted, and unreasonable. In short, there is nothing about our charity’s operation that needs addressing.

"There has been no demonstrated safety issue arising out of Angel Flight’s already greater than 16,500 missions and therefore the 'safety authority' appears to be introducing, in the circumstances, bureaucratic intervention which does not appear to us to have any foundation."

Angel Flight does not own or operate any aircraft itself, but is a co-ordinating charity that introduces people who need to travel for medical reasons to pilots who donate their time and aircraft costs. The flights are generally classified as private.

The discussion paper can be downloaded from the CASA website, and responses need to be sent to CASA no later than 10 October 2014.
Also notice how the common theme to all the responses to the latest missives coming out of Fort Fumble is...

"...There has been no demonstrated safety issue.."


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Old 19th Aug 2014, 14:06
  #1018 (permalink)  
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the joke regarding narrow runways is of course on CAsA and our stupid government.
if the money that has been wasted on oversight and regulatory embuggerment had been spent by the government on actually widening the runways in question there would be no need for the embuggerment or the new regs.

I thought this was an infrastructure government
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Old 19th Aug 2014, 16:53
  #1019 (permalink)  
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Planes, what planes?

I thought this was an infrastructure government
But it is D8 it is - pink bats, school halls, ergonomic government only buildings and a handful of fighter planes, and existing fighter jets for which Defence has cut its fuel budget for. Sadly it's ingrained in our Australian political culture, moulded over the past century and it will never change. The day we finally get a proactive, balls out, constituent focused ruling power will be the day that our GA industry here at home becomes the envy of the world. And with people like Clive and Lambie waiting in the breeches do you think it's ever going to happen?
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Old 19th Aug 2014, 21:13
  #1020 (permalink)  
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Rudderless, clueless and nowhere to hide.

The mystique of aviation safety has always in the past provided sanctuary, a nice big rock to slither under from where stern edicts and warnings could be issued, to baffle the 'masters' and ensure the trough was always full. Easy game and being as how the Polly's mostly could care less, provided their arses were covered; all was well.

Rudderless; when the safety rock was disturbed there was a great need to re-establish the status quo, to do this some form of credibility needed to be regained, quick smart. The stumbling block was that from the top down to about layer two, there was no one left to show the way or lead the tribe back to the promised land, not with any sort of deniable credibility that is.

Clueless; left to their own devices and forced to meet away from safety rock, little groups got together and cobbled together twisted, convoluted little plans, designed to make them shine in the eyes of those who were looking at eradication. Lot's of silly little plots designed to show that 'the authority' was still in control and business was really as usual. The safety watch dog at work. So, the rule book was dragged out and changed, the notion being that when industry rejected it, with much tub thumping and self faradisation, the Regulator could return to it's customary role as 'the authority'. Then there's the CVD tribe, a nice safe little 'safety' drum to bang on, which should garner some kudos – it is after all a 'safety issue'. Some even decided that the naked safety risks posed by 'Angel flight' would provide the vehicle to stardom and re-establish the lustre on a soiled reputation. Not to be outdone, the airports and runways boys get an outing; more dust kicked up....Clueless? Oh yes...

Nowhere to hide ; except behind the skirts of the minuscule and the trusty watchdog. This, while providing temporary shelter is not a secure, long term bolt hole. The minuscule will only stand firm provided the opposition forwards don't push too hard. With an acceptable means to pass the ball to the backs, the minuscule will unload rather than get tackled and embroiled in a ruck. He needs to be fit and uninjured for the big game in Qld.

Aye well, the second half kicks off next week in a parliament near you, there will be some pre game entertainment before the kick off; but sooner or later, the whistle will blow for the start of play. I just hope the game justifies the price of the ticket. We shall see.


Last edited by Kharon; 19th Aug 2014 at 22:12.
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