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ANZ Erebus crash 28 November 1979 - 34 years later.

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ANZ Erebus crash 28 November 1979 - 34 years later.

Old 13th Nov 2013, 04:08
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ANZ Erebus crash 28 November 1979 - 34 years later.

On the 28 November 1979, Air New Zealand Flight TE901crashed into Mt Erebus killing 237 passengers and 20 crew. 34 years has passed, but not forgotten.

I post this thread not on behalf of anybody else, just me. So if it offends, appears biased or doesn’t interest you then that is fine, you are welcome to go elsewhere.

My thoughts are with the families and friends of those killed, as well as with those indelibly scarred by what they experienced in the recovery work. My thoughts are also with those who were wronged, ostracized or disadvantaged by their honesty and integrity during the investigation and subsequent enquiry. I will hold back from making statement about the chief investigator, ANZ management, the then Prime Minister and the CAA. They don’t deserve any further mention.

My thoughts in particular are with;

The family of Captain Thomas James Collins (Jim)
The family of First Officer Gregory Mark Cassin (Greg)
The family of Flight Engineer Gordon Barrett Brooks
The family of Flight Engineer Nicholas John Maloney (Nick)
The families and friends of all crew and passengers whose lives were lost

My utmost respect is paid to;

Justice Peter Mahon (recipient of ‘Jim Collins Memorial Award’ by New Zealand Airline Pilots Association)
Captain Gordon Vette ONZM
Inspector Greg Gilpin


R.I.P
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 05:18
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So if it offends, appears biased or doesn’t interest you then that is fine, you are welcome to go elsewhere.
It doesn't offend me, but it does interest me and statements like
. I will hold back from making statement about the chief investigator, ANZ management, the then Prime Minister and the CAA. They don’t deserve any further mention.
leave no doubt as to your bias. I know I'm welcome to go elsewhere but as the wife is busy cooking tea and nightly news is boring me I will stay and join you in posting personal opinions for the indescriminate masses to read and make comment on.
I think the family of the chief investigator is wronged by folk who hold your opinion. I also think that assassinating his character a year or so after his death was low and said more about Paul Holmes than it did about anything else. I wouldn't have minded if it was factual, but it was 99% emotional rant.
As Chief Investigator he had clear guidelines as to what his duties were and he fulfilled them in my opinion. The Industry is different now, a modern day Investigator in the same position would have much more scope to delve into causal factors other than the primary. Personally I think he was hard done by.
Here comes dinner, hopefully some other random Internet surfer will also comment so we can continue the conversation you started and go over it again and again and again, and then meet back here next year and continue blowing on the coals.
Cheers,
Framer
Edited to say I think your post would have been nice if you had resisted having a dig.
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 05:43
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Framer, your own personally biased retort, in the open spirit of the thread, is more than welcome. That is what life is about, we all have our own personal opinion, beliefs, and biases. Go for it.
As for the subject coming up year after year, 257 lives were lost. Should we forget and move on, really? And if so, why then should we commemorate ANZAC day, or pause on 9/11 every year? It's just lives, all in the past, can't turn back the clock, we know all the reasons why these things occurred. Sorry, I can't agree with you on that point mate.

P.S You mentioned Mrs Framer cooking dinner, that got me hungry. What did you have? (No hidden agenda in my question, just curious).
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 06:50
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Oh goodness, whats done is done
Are we from a flight safety perspective going to learn anymore?
By all means remember the dead, but please please please let us not dwell or delve in the past....
I'm surprised the 89 strike hasn't been mentioned yet....or Air NZ destroying AN
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 06:56
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A truly sad event. RIP.

Count yourselves lucky the politically correct & morally gutless ATSB didn't investigate.
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 07:17
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Interesting this one.

One of the basics of airmanship is situational awareness and the PIC is ultimately responsible for this in a given airspace.

However to recognise this and make an informed decision the PIC needs to have the necessary training in the first place.

So where does "whiteout" fit into this tragic accident?.

As an aside Ansett destroyed itself with it's strong unionism. It didn't need Air NZ's help!!.
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 07:47
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Good stuff.
I see where you're coming from. I guess to me it feels like whenever we discuss it we go around and around in circles and a lot of mis- information ends up being posted by peolpe who have read one book and then formed an opinion.( I'm not suggesting you fall into that category and do share most of the sentiment in your original post.).
Have fun, Framer
Ps, Mexican for tea tonight.
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 08:25
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I worked with the Chief Investigator and can assure all who read this that he was a man of complete integrity.
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 10:10
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747-419, whiteout did indeed play a part in this. There is to much research on the subject, including what was undertaken during and after the accident investigation, to document here, but yes whiteout played a part.

haughtney1, raising 89 and AN's collapse is not the topic of discussion here. 257 dead souls being remembered is.

Framer, very understanding post. Cheers. And as for Mexican, nice one. I am partial to a good feed of Mexican washed down by some Corona's

4Greens, 'assurance' is a large statement, and myself along with other knowledgeable acquaintances who are either no longer with us or who are not inclined to speak or write publicly don't concur. However this is a democracy, free speech and all that stuff, so you are welcome to your opinion.
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 11:06
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Paragraph,
I don't doubt your sincerity when it comes to the subject at hand, moreover I am old enough to remember the devastating effect on families after the loss of 3 people my father knew well through his business dealings.
It is also a mark of respect that we take a moment to pause and reflect on those who through no fault of their own met an untimely end.
The rest of it I'm afraid has been regurgitated in various guises over the years on PPRuNe, so in that sense your statement in effect saying.."if you don't like my post bugger off" merely reinforces dogma attached to this tragic episode in NZ aviation.
If you are unable or unwilling to make that connection or are not savvy enough to garner from the search function, then I feel sorry for you.
My comments relating to AN and 1989 are merely a reflection of other similarly polarizing threads that inevitably descend into name calling and recrimination.
If you choose to use PPRuNe as your own personal device to express an opinion thats fine, but don't expect the rest of us to view your opinions/views/statements in a way that suits your agenda.
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 13:19
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haughtney1,

Well said...
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 13:39
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haughtney1 - I was 8 at the time and distinctly remember one of our teachers in tears because an aunt and uncle had been on the flight.
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 14:16
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My wife and I and our young sons were nearly on that flight, but someone was watching over us. I'll never forget the tragic event; it'll stay with me for ever
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Old 13th Nov 2013, 21:49
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This tragic event occurred a long time ago. I'm sure lessons have been learnt.

Surely the blame game should come to an end and we just remember those who died and the families and friends left behind who mourn?
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Old 14th Nov 2013, 02:34
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Paragraph 377,


My thoughts in particular are with;
And then you name the crew. You do not mention F/O Lucas who was apparently down the back at the critical time of the descent. Is it because reasons for him being down the back have been postulated in various threads regarding this "accident" that have influenced your post?
 
Old 14th Nov 2013, 03:43
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Prospector, firstly I worded my post exactly the way I wanted to word it. I couldn't care less what you think. But considering you are potentially clouded by emotion and feel there may be something sinister or mischievous in my not mentioning First Officer Graham Neville Lucas, I will explain my reason for not including his name - He was indeed not on the flight deck at the point of impact. As a result of that, his good name was not besmirched and tarnished, unlike the others who sat at the pointy end at the time of impact. Simple explanation mate.
Secondly, I said;
The families and friends of all crew and passengers whose lives were lost
That comment is inclusive of First Officer Lucas, the 15 cabin crew and the passengers. You may notice I also didn't mention the name of Peter Mulgrew who was also up front. He didn't get blamed for the accident because he was not part of the crew, hence my not personally mentioning his name.

Lastly, I really don't care what has been posted on other threads over the years. Any prior comments, hypothesise, postulations etc etc that others have made has no bearing or connection whatsoever to what I think or write. Full stop.
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Old 14th Nov 2013, 07:39
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Love ya work, Paragraph. Create an arguably provocative thread and then rip into all and sundry who disagrees with you. Is that a Kiwi thing?
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Old 14th Nov 2013, 07:44
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paragraph 377,

Indeed it has no bearing on what you write and think in a public forum, but in this same public forum those of us who disagree with your thoughts are also free to air them. There is no dispute about remembering those who lost their lives in this "accident", but there will always be dispute about the cause of the accident. Your post was certainly not from a neutral corner and therefor you must expect different points of view to be expressed.
 
Old 14th Nov 2013, 07:46
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Bloggs, I'm not ripping in to anybody. All I have done is respond to assertions made towards my post. I have kept my responses measured and have never set out to provoke anyone. I felt my reply to prospector was quite reasonable under the circumstances.
I have no problem with others opinions, but if they make an untrue statement towards me I will simply correct it.
Your comment about a 'Kiwi thing' is actually offensive in itself.

Prospector, you are more than welcome, and others to reply, it doesn't bother me. In your case you made a remark about my not mentioning F/O Lucas, and I cleared up the reason for you. That doesn't mean I am in anyway saying people can't make posts. You made a comment and I responded with a clarification.
Are some of you really that touchy?
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Old 14th Nov 2013, 07:48
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. Is that a Kiwi thing?
Do not know whether it is a kiwi thing, it would certainly appear to be a new world touchy feely thing. The Captain is not the captain when the shit hits the fan, he is only the captain on payday.
 

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