When is the next cull at QF Engineering?
Qantas is about to learn a very hard lesson. Hopefully it will only be shareholders and managers who feel the pain.
At some point it becomes obvious to employees that their employer can't be trusted. When that happens employees put their own interests first and minimise their contribution to the business. This is what I saw on my last international flight with Qantas a long time ago - tired, dispirited staff just going through the motions of pretending to look after passengers.
To put that another way, one managemnt theory is that management exists to insulate staff from uncertainty and risk by providing them with a stable (risk free) environment in which they can work for the good of the company. Qantas obviously does not subscrbe to this belief as it has been doing its level best for as long as I have been on Pprune to create and foster fear uncertainty and doubt among at least its engineering workforce.
Qantas calculates that the mystique of airlines and international travel will provide it a steady stream of naive ingenues who can be recruited into its workforce and discarded when it suits it and I think they are right, I have One or Two acquaintances who are blissfully happy there at the moment.
However there needs to be a core workforce of old and not bold experienced workers who know the tricks and traps of the trade, and it is the loss of these people that worries me....
Specifically I am worried about line maintenance and operations and to a lesser extent engineering planning, repair and overhaul and heavy maintenance. One simple mistake made by a stressed employee in these areas can lead to tragedy.
To put that another way, consider what might have happened if the failure to perform the AD on the Ansett B767 tail had not been picked up.
At some point it becomes obvious to employees that their employer can't be trusted. When that happens employees put their own interests first and minimise their contribution to the business. This is what I saw on my last international flight with Qantas a long time ago - tired, dispirited staff just going through the motions of pretending to look after passengers.
To put that another way, one managemnt theory is that management exists to insulate staff from uncertainty and risk by providing them with a stable (risk free) environment in which they can work for the good of the company. Qantas obviously does not subscrbe to this belief as it has been doing its level best for as long as I have been on Pprune to create and foster fear uncertainty and doubt among at least its engineering workforce.
Qantas calculates that the mystique of airlines and international travel will provide it a steady stream of naive ingenues who can be recruited into its workforce and discarded when it suits it and I think they are right, I have One or Two acquaintances who are blissfully happy there at the moment.
However there needs to be a core workforce of old and not bold experienced workers who know the tricks and traps of the trade, and it is the loss of these people that worries me....
Specifically I am worried about line maintenance and operations and to a lesser extent engineering planning, repair and overhaul and heavy maintenance. One simple mistake made by a stressed employee in these areas can lead to tragedy.
To put that another way, consider what might have happened if the failure to perform the AD on the Ansett B767 tail had not been picked up.
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FEDSEC that may have been a toy offer by you but it would not have passed the guy's on the floor. No dole tied to months of no pay, some LAME'S with good pay and resources may have been able to sustain that offer but NOT the average guy. It is silly to keep saying it as an offer by you is not a bloody gone conclusion that would have passed the WORKERS vote and I know this for a fact. (guess I may work there hey)
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FTP it was not a toy offer to the company to incorporate 3 months leave without pay in 2014. When I fronted the workforce for the first time to announce this across both crews outside the facility I reckon the meetings and briefs to members covered a couple of hundred workers. Initial reactions were only met by one person disappointed in what we had put on the table. If it was such a bad option, our Reps would have been accosted in the workplace by angry members and they only reported praise for what we were trying to do.
I touched on this in some notices but can show why this would have worked. 3 months of no pay would be very difficult for most. We had put to the company that this should be averaged over 2 years, so 12.5% less pay each week. In the first year there was a 3% wage rise 1 Jan so that year in real terms 9.5% less, 2nd year (another 3%) 6.5% less. ALAEA members to be offered interest free loans in case of hardship.
The company to exhaust annual leave first. Any unused LWOP to go into an account for each employee like your overtime bank. We had rehashed the maintenance plan to bring down the excess 737 work from Brisbane leaving bugger all whitespace. In all likelihood I doubt they would even need the LWOP.
If this was put to a ballot the blokes would have had a choice of what I put above, or closure. In the closure case you option would be zero weeks pay in 24 months. I'm pretty sure the ballot would have passed.
I touched on this in some notices but can show why this would have worked. 3 months of no pay would be very difficult for most. We had put to the company that this should be averaged over 2 years, so 12.5% less pay each week. In the first year there was a 3% wage rise 1 Jan so that year in real terms 9.5% less, 2nd year (another 3%) 6.5% less. ALAEA members to be offered interest free loans in case of hardship.
The company to exhaust annual leave first. Any unused LWOP to go into an account for each employee like your overtime bank. We had rehashed the maintenance plan to bring down the excess 737 work from Brisbane leaving bugger all whitespace. In all likelihood I doubt they would even need the LWOP.
If this was put to a ballot the blokes would have had a choice of what I put above, or closure. In the closure case you option would be zero weeks pay in 24 months. I'm pretty sure the ballot would have passed.
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I can only say that you may think this way, but on the coal face I can tell you very few people would have voted that way as a numbers game was ran and it WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. As you know they say little at meetings but when the penny drops and it sinks in NO WAY it would have happened. As is happening now heaps more working o/time just to make ends meet.
Do not get me wrong as you tried but face facts money is everything when it goes that is a dynamite situation for many, if a form of payment was given (do not know how, but other industries like car and Alcoa seems to be more important for future voting) it could have been survivable for many and it would have been voted up.
But the situation is dead and all marching 28th March 2014 (now this is a fact do you agree)
Do not get me wrong as you tried but face facts money is everything when it goes that is a dynamite situation for many, if a form of payment was given (do not know how, but other industries like car and Alcoa seems to be more important for future voting) it could have been survivable for many and it would have been voted up.
But the situation is dead and all marching 28th March 2014 (now this is a fact do you agree)
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Silverado here is my point the local geelong advertiser keeps publishing articles that the 246 forstaff employees are contractors when clearly they are NOT .
If you read any articles this paper writes about Avalon you would know they are full of errors and bulls#×£.
If you read any articles this paper writes about Avalon you would know they are full of errors and bulls#×£.
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Yes FTP I agree with your last point.
We are preparing the Fed Court case against the decision for breaching the job security clause in the Qantas LAME Agreement. Unfortunately a decision even if we win would be 12 months away and I suppose all that will happen would be that they would get fined.
They did however get fined last year over 40 gorillas for breaching the Agreement with very strong words from the judge warning them not to do it again. Don't hang your hat on it though.
We are preparing the Fed Court case against the decision for breaching the job security clause in the Qantas LAME Agreement. Unfortunately a decision even if we win would be 12 months away and I suppose all that will happen would be that they would get fined.
They did however get fined last year over 40 gorillas for breaching the Agreement with very strong words from the judge warning them not to do it again. Don't hang your hat on it though.
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Once again, Steve, even if you win this breach of agreement case, the penalty will not fit the offence. The fine wil again be small, and followed by stern words of "don't do it again".
The alternative of not doing anything is just not palatable, so assuming you get costs awarded in your favor, then it's worth the effort to "keep the bastards honest".
So I say good luck in this case and any others that you pursue on behalf of your members.
The alternative of not doing anything is just not palatable, so assuming you get costs awarded in your favor, then it's worth the effort to "keep the bastards honest".
So I say good luck in this case and any others that you pursue on behalf of your members.
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Notice period given to Qantas staff at Avalon,last day in April and some in June.Forstaff employees getting warning by HR for taking sickie.
Qf management cruelty to Forstaff---
u must work your notice period
u loose 2 weeks if u take sickie
U must deliver aircraft on time
No o/t on that week if you take sickie on Monday or Friday
Qf management cruelty to Forstaff---
u must work your notice period
u loose 2 weeks if u take sickie
U must deliver aircraft on time
No o/t on that week if you take sickie on Monday or Friday
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Sick leave is also for when the manpower in your area has been cut to the bone and leave at short notice (anything less than a couple of months) is impossible to get.
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IAW,
Under normal circumstances, you would be right.
Under the circumstances existing today, the stress can be intolerable for some and as I have posted before, I would not want those affected to be working and/or certifying for work on the aircraft on which I may be about to fly.
These people need to be completely focused on these matters and not drifting away on thoughts about what is going to become of them and their families and critical mistakes will be made. Not just in the quality of the work, but in the carrying out of procedures that affect the safety of those in the vicinity.
Accidents happen this way.
THAT'S what WILL happen at times like this .....so go easy on them.
Under normal circumstances, you would be right.
Under the circumstances existing today, the stress can be intolerable for some and as I have posted before, I would not want those affected to be working and/or certifying for work on the aircraft on which I may be about to fly.
These people need to be completely focused on these matters and not drifting away on thoughts about what is going to become of them and their families and critical mistakes will be made. Not just in the quality of the work, but in the carrying out of procedures that affect the safety of those in the vicinity.
Accidents happen this way.
THAT'S what WILL happen at times like this .....so go easy on them.
Last edited by AEROMEDIC; 24th Jan 2014 at 02:09. Reason: Typo
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contractor 101
Jethro - its easy...... the smart journalists guide for interpreting QF B.S. - applicable to all matters dealing with Pilots, CC, LAMES, rampies and ground staff
they are contractors when:
(a) the company is announcing cuts and closures (it doesnt matter they are not our staff)
(b) there is a stuff up that can make AJ et. al look bad (it someone else's fault)
(c) the company media release says outsourcing is good (alongside greed which is always good)
(d) the basic principles of FRMS and human factors are inconvenient
they are not contractors when:
(a) managemnt KPI's are due and the exec bonuses look wobbly ("part of the family mantra - we all need to cut costs together)
(b) there is a major incident wherein LAMEs, drivers and CC all are rolled out as the salt of the company e.g. A380 RR myopia ("we have the best professionals in the business but overlook the fact that we take them for granted and tip buckets of sh*t on them at every opportunity)
they are contractors when:
(a) the company is announcing cuts and closures (it doesnt matter they are not our staff)
(b) there is a stuff up that can make AJ et. al look bad (it someone else's fault)
(c) the company media release says outsourcing is good (alongside greed which is always good)
(d) the basic principles of FRMS and human factors are inconvenient
they are not contractors when:
(a) managemnt KPI's are due and the exec bonuses look wobbly ("part of the family mantra - we all need to cut costs together)
(b) there is a major incident wherein LAMEs, drivers and CC all are rolled out as the salt of the company e.g. A380 RR myopia ("we have the best professionals in the business but overlook the fact that we take them for granted and tip buckets of sh*t on them at every opportunity)
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If you can't read this then just google the title and you should get access.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
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Makes sense that MRO's will start ramping up charges after other operators start shutting down their facilities.
Only problems are 1/ In due time the operator will have little control over the costs of heavy maintenance. 2/ How will an airline start up in-house maintenance again with the associated start-up costs so high and a lack of suitably experienced engineers. 3/ Who will be left to sack when unexpected costs associated with heavy maintenance start to blow out the cost base of the business.
I guess current management will be long gone to deal with such issues.
What a great shame that the next generations of Australians will no longer have the same opportunities we have had in this industry. To me this is the greatest tragedy.
Only problems are 1/ In due time the operator will have little control over the costs of heavy maintenance. 2/ How will an airline start up in-house maintenance again with the associated start-up costs so high and a lack of suitably experienced engineers. 3/ Who will be left to sack when unexpected costs associated with heavy maintenance start to blow out the cost base of the business.
I guess current management will be long gone to deal with such issues.
What a great shame that the next generations of Australians will no longer have the same opportunities we have had in this industry. To me this is the greatest tragedy.
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SAM taking over the 737 overnighters is a given.
With one batch of Ops Managers for International and Domestic, one would assume they are going on to the same shift.
With a proper integration of A380 into SAM, that will leave the three business units of Terminals, SAM and LMCE (Cabbos and IFE).
Getting rid of the DMM and Supervisor positions and reducing the number of crews to get rid of a few leading hands will cost quite a few LAME scalps, A licences one MOD will claim even more.
It's hard to see how they can get rid of many more without significantly reducing the workload?
With one batch of Ops Managers for International and Domestic, one would assume they are going on to the same shift.
With a proper integration of A380 into SAM, that will leave the three business units of Terminals, SAM and LMCE (Cabbos and IFE).
Getting rid of the DMM and Supervisor positions and reducing the number of crews to get rid of a few leading hands will cost quite a few LAME scalps, A licences one MOD will claim even more.
It's hard to see how they can get rid of many more without significantly reducing the workload?
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Not a fan of Paul Howes, but just listened to him on the ABC's NPC and he delivered a fantastic speech, with quite a bit of eloquence, on the IR debate.
I might have even changed my view on him but that tie up with Livvy is just a bit too cosy.
I haven't got the link, but do try and listen to it on the ABC website.
I might have even changed my view on him but that tie up with Livvy is just a bit too cosy.
I haven't got the link, but do try and listen to it on the ABC website.
Last edited by Clipped; 5th Feb 2014 at 01:46.