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Ground collision YMML - Virgin/Jetstar

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Ground collision YMML - Virgin/Jetstar

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Old 19th Aug 2013, 05:15
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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So how many posting have actually pushed with a p.p.u or a tug and tow-bar and at those gates in particular?

Why would you need wing walkers when the wings are already clear of any fixed structure and at least 10 metres from the adj a/c, and as for pushing while not following the lead out line, is that a procedural/staffing issue that's virgins fault?
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Old 19th Aug 2013, 05:20
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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I could start with about 3 million good reasons...
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Old 19th Aug 2013, 07:13
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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I saw Virgin push off D2 today.
They used two wing walkers.
As soon as the Aircraft was nearly off the bay, the wing walkers vacated.
The tug driver got dangerously close with the tail to the wall as he swung around and had to pull forward and correct twice before disconnect.
The wing walkers should have stayed around for clearance on the tail.
Bit of a worry.
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Old 19th Aug 2013, 08:09
  #124 (permalink)  
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The Golden Rivet So how many posting have actually pushed with a p.p.u or a tug and tow-bar and at those gates in particular?

Why would you need wing walkers when the wings are already clear of any fixed structure and at least 10 metres from the adj a/c, and as for pushing while not following the lead out line, is that a procedural/staffing issue that's virgins fault?


I can think of many reasons too.
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Old 19th Aug 2013, 08:19
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Smile

Even wing walkers don't guarantee a collision won't occur.

I remember an incident in the RAAF years ago when a P3 Orion was being towed in front of a 707, there was a groundie standing at the nose of the 707, ensuring clearance and holding his thumb up. He sheepishly rotated his hand to indicate thumbs down as the P3 wingtip sliced through the 707's nose.
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Old 19th Aug 2013, 09:40
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Has anyone checked the lines, as far as I'm aware to push off D2 you need to push all the way back to the taxiway to swing around, not this push pull correct crap
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Old 19th Aug 2013, 10:06
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I could start with about 3 million good reasons...
How about it starts with the procedures manual?

If you are operating IAW it, you have "a chair when the music stops".
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Old 19th Aug 2013, 20:23
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Why would you need wing walkers when the wings are already clear of any fixed structure and at least 10 metres from the adj a/c
Ohh I don't know......maybe just in case a Jetstar aircraft holds short of the bay and the guy pushing has made an error of judgement and cuts the APU off with the winglet?
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Old 19th Aug 2013, 23:01
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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VicVector, maybe they thought they only needed to look at the wings!
Otherwise they would be called "tail walkers".
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 00:00
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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The push from the Virgin gate does not follow lines. The aircraft is slotted between D2 and D4.
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 01:04
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Arguing the pros and cons of wing-walkers v's no wing-walkers is moot don't you think?

The one and only reason we don't have wing-walkers is cost. Some accountants (rather simplistic) risk analysis has concluded that there is a boost to the bottom line and therefore it is safe.

If only someone qualified in some way had made the decision, we wouldn't have two needlessly bent aeroplanes. Nor would we have risked the lives of a hundred or so people.

This is a glimpse at how simplistic decisions, made years before, by bean counters can manifest themselves as accidents.

We aviation types with a direct interest in threat and error management might call these things "latent threats".

Just saying
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 10:34
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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VicVictor,

The D2 push would of been done by the Toll Dnata. The pull forward is apart of the push.

Regards,
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 10:36
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Alaea fed sec,

There is a line buddy, pull on your hi vis and get your ASIC renewed and go have a look.

Pay attention to the black and WHITE lines which are for pushes.
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 10:42
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Yellow and black is your taxi. Black and white is usually an inverse arc compared to the taxi turn. I could get my vest on and go for a walk and I admit that I haven't. Are you saying the black and white push line runs off and deviates between International gates 2 and 4? There was never a line there for the 12 years I worked the Mel tarmac.
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 10:59
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Righto. I may be the first ever union boss to say these words. I was wrong. Just had a look on google earth and there are lines everywhere.




and a little bit closer so you can all carry out the investigation from your lounge rooms.


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Old 20th Aug 2013, 13:22
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Every hour aircraft are arriving at gates/bays where the NIGS haven't been configured or the marshaller isn't on-site. Why?
Since the MEL accident there are more and more aircraft advising that they aren't on the bay (NIGS not on or set for a different type or the marshaller isn't available). Surely these arriving aircraft aren't a surprise (??), could it be a staffing issue...
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Old 20th Aug 2013, 15:01
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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This is an old photo. All the lines have been re surveyed since the tarmac area was re done recently.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 00:04
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Photo is from google maps so could be a couple of years old. It is different than my time there because of all the ongoing works. It does show how confusing it is though.
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 04:51
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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2009 if you look bottom right of image
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Old 21st Aug 2013, 11:51
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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The D2 push would of been done by the Toll Dnata. The pull forward is apart of
the push.

In the situation that I witnessed there was 'multiple' pull forwards. Looked bad. The tail of the 73 swung around too far east and was way too close to the wall. The driver seemed to wander from the line quite a bit. I have pushed from this gate (on maintenance tows) and I pass no judgement on the driver as I know it can get tricky. Cheers.
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