Stop Pilot Skills going on the Shortage list. Your help required.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
So what you're saying Jimmy is that if someone who went and got a CPL during the "normal" times in NZ, when jobs are as rare as unicorn sh!t, (which has pretty much been the default situation for the last couple of decades at least), and that person eventually couldn't afford to bang their head against the brick wall any longer and had to go back to work in some non piloting capacity ...
... that none of those guys deserve at least to be given a chance at an interview / assessment, that they now deserve to be written off because their "motivation isn't in the right place", and on that basis Air NZ has the right to import a bunch of foreign pilots instead?
Pretty harsh bro
... that none of those guys deserve at least to be given a chance at an interview / assessment, that they now deserve to be written off because their "motivation isn't in the right place", and on that basis Air NZ has the right to import a bunch of foreign pilots instead?
Pretty harsh bro
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SWUTH
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anonymity may be good for some but perhaps not all...
" D Check, You may find that candidates in the recruit to group system awaiting an interview would rather remain anonymous."
I agree totally. But it just goes to show that no matter what you do, unless you are safely 'in the fold' there is no way to take any action to protect your patch for fear of repercussions further down the track.
I too know a number of people who meet the Air NZ minimums. Getting a call for an interview seems to be luck of the draw. You can only update or ring HR so much before you become a nuisance.....
I agree totally. But it just goes to show that no matter what you do, unless you are safely 'in the fold' there is no way to take any action to protect your patch for fear of repercussions further down the track.
I too know a number of people who meet the Air NZ minimums. Getting a call for an interview seems to be luck of the draw. You can only update or ring HR so much before you become a nuisance.....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: .
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think they're that desperate.
...or is it really about helping to boost the training industry here, it's the dirty little secret that doesn't get talked about. Perhaps ; "o look, pilot skills are on the shortage list, spend your Thousands of dollars to get qualified and get a job"
It's a billion dollar industry remember.
Just like that little gem that comes up "not many instructors around, must be a pilot shortage" or "all the upcoming retiring pilots...".
Stay in the industry long enough you will here it time and again.
For those of you more computer literate these days do a Google Search and you can find the above phrases repeating in news articles from the distant past.
candidates in the recruit to group system awaiting an interview would rather remain anonymous.
Last edited by URCleared; 22nd Jul 2013 at 02:35.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wolly
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's the really kicker for me.
"Ministry of social Development." So basically there are 8 unemployed pilots on the benefit who meet their requirements, which is probably true. This is essentially ANZ entire argument and they have to resort to supplying misleading information. Problem is Mr John Doe will look at this number and say "oooh woow look! There is a shortage of pilots! Better allow ANZ to recruit some from overseas!"
But heres an idea..Why don't they supply the numbers from their own recruitment list? Probably because it will show that there are 100's of pilots who meet their requirements that HR hasn't even called or replied to. Part 125 requirements for VFR are 500 TT and 25 night, for IFR are 1200 IFR and 50 night. So basically every single pilot who flies for a 125 operator (EG Sounds air, air to there, Great barrier airlines, vincient aviation, air milford, Air freight nz, Air chathams, etc, etc, etc) and nearly all 135 pilots who have worked for a year or more will meet the "ANZSCO skill level classification requirements." Yet ANZ states there's only 8 pilots? But the real kicker to this entire situation is that ANZ probably hasn't even interviewed those 8 pilots!
This would make a pretty good Tui billboard sign.. "There's only 8 pilots in the entire country that meet Air New Zealands requirements.. Tui yeah right."
National data on people available to work or train suggests that there are 8 suitable jobseekers available to
fill vacancies within this occupation. (Based on the
Ministry of Social Development data as at 26 Apr 2013).
fill vacancies within this occupation. (Based on the
Ministry of Social Development data as at 26 Apr 2013).
But heres an idea..Why don't they supply the numbers from their own recruitment list? Probably because it will show that there are 100's of pilots who meet their requirements that HR hasn't even called or replied to. Part 125 requirements for VFR are 500 TT and 25 night, for IFR are 1200 IFR and 50 night. So basically every single pilot who flies for a 125 operator (EG Sounds air, air to there, Great barrier airlines, vincient aviation, air milford, Air freight nz, Air chathams, etc, etc, etc) and nearly all 135 pilots who have worked for a year or more will meet the "ANZSCO skill level classification requirements." Yet ANZ states there's only 8 pilots? But the real kicker to this entire situation is that ANZ probably hasn't even interviewed those 8 pilots!
This would make a pretty good Tui billboard sign.. "There's only 8 pilots in the entire country that meet Air New Zealands requirements.. Tui yeah right."
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NZ
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems they are claiming a shortage of Jet candidates,
many in my boat wont meet that part 121 requirement.
121.557 The rule states:
(d) A pilot may not commence an introduction segment of the training
programme under paragraph (a) unless—
(1) the pilot—
(i) has acquired at least 500 hours of flight time experience
as pilot, including at least 100 hours of flight time in air
operations; or
(ii) has acquired at least 500 hours of flight time experience
as a pilot on a multi-engine aeroplane type; and
(2) the pilot—
(i) holds a current instrument rating; and
(ii) has acquired at least 40 hours of instrument time of
which at least 10 hours were completed under the
supervision of an appropriately qualified flight
instructor; and
(3) the pilot has acquired at least 25 hours of night flight time
experience for air operations at night.
121.3 Definitions
In this Part—
Air operation means an air transport operation or a commercial transport
operation using an aeroplane having a seating configuration of more
than 30 seats, excluding any required crew member seat, or a payload
capacity of more than 3410 kg:
This seating configuration and payload requirement is the issue I think.
This would exclude a lot of caravan drivers, and most instructors at flight schools.
I initailly thought they were talking about link by that salary range.
Average annual base salary:1 $84,900
Salary range: $47,600 to $100,000
Im sure the jet drivers average a lot more than that.
There is definitely a mistake in that submission. or am i on the wrong path?
many in my boat wont meet that part 121 requirement.
121.557 The rule states:
(d) A pilot may not commence an introduction segment of the training
programme under paragraph (a) unless—
(1) the pilot—
(i) has acquired at least 500 hours of flight time experience
as pilot, including at least 100 hours of flight time in air
operations; or
(ii) has acquired at least 500 hours of flight time experience
as a pilot on a multi-engine aeroplane type; and
(2) the pilot—
(i) holds a current instrument rating; and
(ii) has acquired at least 40 hours of instrument time of
which at least 10 hours were completed under the
supervision of an appropriately qualified flight
instructor; and
(3) the pilot has acquired at least 25 hours of night flight time
experience for air operations at night.
121.3 Definitions
In this Part—
Air operation means an air transport operation or a commercial transport
operation using an aeroplane having a seating configuration of more
than 30 seats, excluding any required crew member seat, or a payload
capacity of more than 3410 kg:
This seating configuration and payload requirement is the issue I think.
This would exclude a lot of caravan drivers, and most instructors at flight schools.
I initailly thought they were talking about link by that salary range.
Average annual base salary:1 $84,900
Salary range: $47,600 to $100,000
Im sure the jet drivers average a lot more than that.
There is definitely a mistake in that submission. or am i on the wrong path?
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Intake.
The ATPLs are not a must. You can have the ATPLs waived by meeting UE requirements or having a degree in anything.
BUT they are then telling guys that they then need their ATPLs even though they meet the UE or degree side of the requirements.
There is no mention of the UE/Degree/ATPL requirements for the foreign nationals either. Should they not have to come with an ATPL already? Converting their ICAO CPL + ATPL theory is only going to give them a CPL. Which they will then have to write their ATPL again anyway.
Oh, and they are already interviewing foreign guys with appropriate experience on type anyway.
The ATPLs are not a must. You can have the ATPLs waived by meeting UE requirements or having a degree in anything.
BUT they are then telling guys that they then need their ATPLs even though they meet the UE or degree side of the requirements.
There is no mention of the UE/Degree/ATPL requirements for the foreign nationals either. Should they not have to come with an ATPL already? Converting their ICAO CPL + ATPL theory is only going to give them a CPL. Which they will then have to write their ATPL again anyway.
Oh, and they are already interviewing foreign guys with appropriate experience on type anyway.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: .
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ kiwiCj6
Has to be more to it otherwise Instructors etc wouldn't be getting FO on the Dash 8/ATR which are Part 121/more than 30seats.
If memory serves me correct I think the 'air operations' definition, even though defined at the start of the Part, is not for the context referenced in the pilot experience. Give CAA a call.
Has to be more to it otherwise Instructors etc wouldn't be getting FO on the Dash 8/ATR which are Part 121/more than 30seats.
If memory serves me correct I think the 'air operations' definition, even though defined at the start of the Part, is not for the context referenced in the pilot experience. Give CAA a call.
Last edited by URCleared; 24th Jul 2013 at 02:33. Reason: memory recall
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now you know how us Aussies feel and we empathise with the Kiwis on this crazy unacceptable situation. Repatriation and local talent loyalty means bugger-all to the suits managing these airlines. Australia are importing overseas pilots as DEC with REX and SkyWest (aka Virgin) therefore displacing our very own pilots. Cause of this, the gap between GA and airlines is getting bigger by the moment, unless you're a cadet. Where's the AFAP in all this, I guess they got their wings clipped in '89. 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Dog Box
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paranoia
As for the topic at hand, I think there's a bit of paranoia in this thread. I can't see the flood gates being opened to any man and his dog from the 3rd world with a Pilots license, nor can I see this "driving down wages". We don't work for Qantas/Jetstar....
It is important for anyone that wishes to preserve T&C's in this country to make a submission. For those with access to the ALPA website, they currently are running a survey identical to GAA, it takes less than 2 minutes to complete and I would encorage all those who haven't yet to do so. It closes tonight, the time for action is today.
Supply and demand folks.
Air NZ is taking the mickey on this matter and hopefully the department of labour will see right through it.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Zealand
Age: 40
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for the topic at hand, I think there's a bit of paranoia in this thread. I can't see the flood gates being opened to any man and his dog from the 3rd world with a Pilots license, nor can I see this "driving down wages". We don't work for Qantas/Jetstar....
It would be interesting to see what sort of T&Cs those overseas applicants would be given.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Here's the link to the GAA page concerned - great work there chaps! It would certainly be worthwhile to share it on F a c e b o o k and the various other social networks for the benefit of non ppruners. Apparently the deadline for submissions has been extended to August 9th?
Attention all NZ CPL holders - this concerns YOU
Also here's the links to the Air NZ job adverts referred to
Free Pilot Jobs - Pilot jobs First Officer New Zealand Pilot Hiring
Free Pilot Jobs - Airline job search First Officer Boeing B747, Boeing B767, Boeing B777 Auckland, New Zealand Pilot Hiring
It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me on a lot of levels though, there clearly ISN'T a pilot shortage, and there's obviously benefits to the employer in terms of loyalty and public perception, by employing kiwis to the *national airline*, so why are they doing this? Is it just so they can have an extra gun to point at ALPA's head when the next round of pay negotiations come round?
Attention all NZ CPL holders - this concerns YOU
Also here's the links to the Air NZ job adverts referred to
Free Pilot Jobs - Pilot jobs First Officer New Zealand Pilot Hiring
Free Pilot Jobs - Airline job search First Officer Boeing B747, Boeing B767, Boeing B777 Auckland, New Zealand Pilot Hiring
It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me on a lot of levels though, there clearly ISN'T a pilot shortage, and there's obviously benefits to the employer in terms of loyalty and public perception, by employing kiwis to the *national airline*, so why are they doing this? Is it just so they can have an extra gun to point at ALPA's head when the next round of pay negotiations come round?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: .
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes. Extended to Aug 9.
Item made the 6pm News. Article Video
AIA and David Morgan Chief Pilot. Reply from Air NZ to GAA
Item made the 6pm News. Article Video
AIA and David Morgan Chief Pilot. Reply from Air NZ to GAA
Last edited by URCleared; 25th Jul 2013 at 06:43.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: waitahanui rip
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nice copy and paste work on the press release capt morgan.....
as for Irene king..... tighten up that scarf around your neck sexy lady... what you getting paid from air nz for that intelligent response???
as for Irene king..... tighten up that scarf around your neck sexy lady... what you getting paid from air nz for that intelligent response???
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ANZ have brought this on themselves. Get rid of HR.
I know great guys and gals you haven't got a look in because of their lack of non aviation qualification requirements or their HR profiling during an interview.
These been great pilots, great people and with descent time.
Why not give more people a go and weed them out later if necessary. 'Fools you'
I know great guys and gals you haven't got a look in because of their lack of non aviation qualification requirements or their HR profiling during an interview.
These been great pilots, great people and with descent time.
Why not give more people a go and weed them out later if necessary. 'Fools you'
Last edited by WOOLLY; 25th Jul 2013 at 22:20.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Windy Capital
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the confirmation that the deadline has been extended.
Will be making a submission - personally have 9000 hours turbo-prop PIC and due to work changes have put my application into Air NZ. Aside from the automatic acknowlegement, nothing heard since.
However, could this be because I don't have UE? Despite 25 years experience and an ATPL?
Will be making a submission - personally have 9000 hours turbo-prop PIC and due to work changes have put my application into Air NZ. Aside from the automatic acknowlegement, nothing heard since.
However, could this be because I don't have UE? Despite 25 years experience and an ATPL?
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: between low east and high east
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well good on Dave Morgan what an @sshole. Good to see Dave looking after kiwi pilots who have put up with crap money in GA and the regionals to then be shafted by big dog when the chance of a jet job comes along. How about looking after your pilots Dave and less drinking p!ss in Paris. As for Luxon, looks like he to is showing his true colours, trust them not.
People can make all the submissions they like, it will make no difference. Have a couple of rolling stop work meetings and bring the network to a holt and send a clear message on this subject, only then will you have the attention of Dave, Chris and John Key.
Bob
Ps: who do I see for my 777 command ?
People can make all the submissions they like, it will make no difference. Have a couple of rolling stop work meetings and bring the network to a holt and send a clear message on this subject, only then will you have the attention of Dave, Chris and John Key.
Bob
Ps: who do I see for my 777 command ?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Rocket boots, a great example. A colleague applied, 4500 TT, 3000 single pilot. Told to go away and get U.E. or today's equivalent to be considered. He is 36 years old.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Australia
Age: 42
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just left 8 years in Finance in Sydney and London to come back to NZ and complete a PPL, CPL, MECIR and ATPLs full time in order to have a shot at the dream of one day flying in the Links. I cant believe how highly qualified some people are on here and not getting anywhere in NZ. Yet ANZ comes out with this horrible intention. What am I doing.
Last edited by Tui12; 25th Jul 2013 at 23:57.