Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Virgin Aircraft 'Emergency' Landing

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Virgin Aircraft 'Emergency' Landing

Old 18th Jun 2013, 16:35
  #61 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 50
Posts: 547
This will be a cracker of a report, some thing we'll all probably learn from. Expect the report in 2016-17 should we?
If you want a heads up the senate inquiry thread may give one!

halfmanhalfbiscuit is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 17:10
  #62 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 29
I'll be careful here, but I'm pretty sure ( No MELS, abs certain ) the 737 will land off an ILS in zero visibility, as oppose to a VOR/DME approach in marginal visibility, I wait for the facts.
Buckshot16 is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 19:15
  #63 (permalink)  

Bottums Up
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: dunnunda
Age: 63
Posts: 3,441
Just musing out loud...

I wonder if the airline's (collectively not just Virgin) bean counters had been on board enroute to the World Bean Counter's AGM in ADL, and had all had to go through the experience, including the BRACE, BRACE, BRACE; would they continue to advocate minimalist legal fuel "because statistically you'll just carry it for the sake of carrying it"?

Or would the experience, actually having some fear of the outcome, change their statistical outlook to permit the sensible carriage of an alternate, whether the current rules require it or not?

Capt Claret is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 19:36
  #64 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 54
Posts: 2,767
What is a rough fuel figure to climb out of Adelaide and go to Melbourne and land with 2 tonnes?
framer is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 20:08
  #65 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: brisbane
Posts: 394
Excellent post Claret!
greenslopes is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 21:57
  #66 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 54
Posts: 2,767
If it was the required 2800m there wouldn't be a thread running on it.
framer is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 22:08
  #67 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in a box
Posts: 101
Firstly, credit where it is due, and hats off to the crew for a safe outcome.

Video looks like some serious pea soup. Would be lucky to be 800m I would think. No wonder the pax had been given the brace command. Makes sense to me. I look forward to finding out how they pulled it off safely but I am going to guess like everyone else has been, and agree with the previous poster who said dial up the rnav which will give the pseudo glideslope to the threshold.

I wonder if there will be an RNP approach implemented in Mildura at a later date now that the test flying calibration has been already completed
Hailstop3 is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 22:32
  #68 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downunda
Posts: 559
Speaking of fuel, can anybody confirm whether VA have actually introduced new policy? I paxed 3 return sectors last week for business , 6 different aircraft for a total of 6 flights. Each aircraft was stinking hot, minimal to nil aircon until climb. No U/S APU's, just stinking hot onboard with plenty of pax whinging, including myself. I am curious whether a policy has been introduced? If it has it is not a good one. If my flights next week are a replica of last week I may go back to the Rat for a month or two to re-test the waters so to speak.
Three weeks ago the flights felt cooler??
004wercras is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 22:59
  #69 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,177
Hmmm... i'm wondering why the BOM caint get their fog forecasts right ?
Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 22:59
  #70 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
I too got caught out yesterday, and I would have landed with 2.5 tons of fuel. I think the met boys were having a bad day, as the fog wasn't forecast and didn't clear until 1-2 hours AFTER the forecast TTF period! A quick discussion with my FO and we just went back to where we had just come from. The good news on that one was that the wind @ FL350 was 260/176kts, so picked up a nice little tail wind! I have left the auto-pilot on many times doing a practice RNAV/Z runway approach, and had made the decision a long time before, that it would get you within the runway confines, in fog. You may take out a few lights, but way better than crashing in a paddock!! I don't know the facts, but I imagine this is exactly what the Virgin crew did. Maybe the QF crew were just alerting them to the actual viz conditions as they made their final approach. I too would have prepared the cabin for a possible crash landing as they have had a lot of rain up that way, and the grass verges would be very soft. Brilliant result i reckon!
AussieAviator is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 23:33
  #71 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,248
After having seen the fog at BN being cleared by aircraft executing missed approaches, the vis you see on the video taken from the terminal area may not be the vis the crew had on their second approach.

The completion of the missed approach may have dissipated the fog enough to complete the final approach and landing.

Last edited by 601; 18th Jun 2013 at 23:34.
601 is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2013, 23:40
  #72 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Warm & Sunny
Posts: 94
Never trust ADL in winter !

Personal experience - Ansett days; CBR to ADL with a CAVOK TAFOR / TTF-M on ADL.
Preparing for briefing prior to TOPD and got the ADL atis which indicated fog moving in from the NE. Had not received any hazard alert from ATC.
Mildura and MEL had fog and too far into the flight to return to CBR so the decision was made to continue to ADL and try to beat the fog (with the option of an autoland if need be).
VOR/D 05 no good so took a 5kt downwind ILS 23 and got visual at 600'. The fog continued to thicken after our arrival.
From what I have observed at ADL, the fog forms up the Barossa Valley , not so much over the airport itself, then slides down the valley with a katabatic breeze which also takes out Edingurgh.
The ADL forcast might not have fog but it is frequently not too far away.

Role on....
Alien Role is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2013, 00:50
  #73 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Land Of Oz
Age: 40
Posts: 6
Thankful very experienced Captain flying this one, 30+yrs flying experience

Been told he cut his teeth flying turbo props flying Adl to Mql in his younger days

Top effort
Abe Froeman is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2013, 01:15
  #74 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,327
What hasn't been mentioned so far is the way 3AW reported this (in the person of David Armstrong and that Journalist's Journalist Neil Mitchell). I admit I'm paraphrasing the exact wording here, but the story was retold as: "The Virgin 737 pilot was guided to a safe landing by the Qantas pilot who had landed before him . . ."
Channel 9 Brisbane made a similar statement in their promo for the 6 o'clock news but there was no such reference in the full bulletin.
Fris B. Fairing is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2013, 01:27
  #75 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 8,120
[email protected]@dyHell! That video gave me goosebums.

Ben Sandilands has completely missed the point, which is that the BOM have comprehensivley failed the travelling public by it's apparent inability to forecast accurately. This is endangering the lives of thousands of unsuspecting travellers because airlines are trusting the forecasts to carry fuel levels that are too low to cope with a bad forecast/unplanned diversion.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2013, 01:41
  #76 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: A house
Posts: 637
Bloggs- Bingo.

Surely it doesnt 'cost' the BOM anything to put a PROB30 up in the TAF the night before? In the past fortnight I have had early morning departures to 2 aerodromes that had no mention of fog and thus no alternate requirement. The temp/dew point split and wind off the metar led me to believe that fog would be likely and whaddyaknow- speci's come out mid-sector. 1 resulted in a diversion and the other occassion the fog was partial and not fully over the airfield.

Do the BOM have a vested interest in not putting limiting forecasts up?
Chadzat is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2013, 01:48
  #77 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sunny QLD
Posts: 610
Like Singapore's rolling tempo to enable singair to avoid carrying extra fuel?
ejectx3 is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2013, 01:51
  #78 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: On the equator
Posts: 1,292
Has anyone ever seen anything higher than PROB30 for FG or any other weather for that matter? Eg, PROB70 FG? I never have. It always seem to be PROB30 or nothing. If you see PROB>50 for FG or BR, that would at least get more attention.
training wheels is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2013, 01:55
  #79 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Australia
Age: 33
Posts: 26
I have never seen anything greater than PROB40 on a TAF. It was my understanding that PROB30 means it is unlikely but definitely could occur. PROB40 on the other hand indicates a very high certainty of the event occurring.
michael36 is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2013, 01:55
  #80 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 135
My understanding is probs are only forecast at 30 or 40.
triathlon is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.