300m runway extension for WLG
Erm - forgive my mere PPL ignorance, but in order to get anything like a stable 10 mile final approach for a WB jet into a northerly extended R34 - wouldn't you have to drop a nuke on Newlands to create a large gap that they could fly through?!
Although I suppose they could always do a tactical military descent to short finals - or even one of those bush pilot side-slip arrivals...
Although I suppose they could always do a tactical military descent to short finals - or even one of those bush pilot side-slip arrivals...
Although I suppose they could always do a tactical military descent to short finals - or even one of those bush pilot side-slip arrivals
Neither the 747 SP or the B767 200/300 had a terrain problem going into NZWN --- don't know where that idea came from.
The SP into NZWN was an interesting political story. The RR B747-200s that both QF and NZ had were superior performers in and out of there. This was because of the different (simple) TE flaps on the SP, resulting in a higher Vref for approach than a -200.
However, NZ CAA of the day was desperate to not have to allow ANZ to operate there, so QF bought two of the world's longest range aeroplanes for its (then) shortest (almost) route.
The 767 operation was quite straight forward, and the low speed handling made short work of the turbulence -- the 767 in and out of NZWN was the best aircraft since the Electra to handle those conditions.
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 31st May 2013 at 09:38.
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Extending the runway @ WLG?
Got a name for it!
"The Didymo extension"
(those longer serving PB crew would understand this)
Got a name for it!
"The Didymo extension"
(those longer serving PB crew would understand this)
Last edited by Chocks Away; 8th Jul 2013 at 01:55.
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But you are correct regarding Newlands, tartare. I think the clearance is already tight on the G/S for 16 as it is.
That being said, take-off is generally more critical that landing, so the extension may be only for 16 departures & the landing distance will remain the same on that runway, with a displaced threshold.
The reverse would be true for 34 departures & arrivals, with the extra length being available for landings, but not much good for departures. Unless, of course, you have an alternate EFATO procedure available, such as an LNAV or visual turn back down the harbour, like burty referred to.
That being said, take-off is generally more critical that landing, so the extension may be only for 16 departures & the landing distance will remain the same on that runway, with a displaced threshold.
The reverse would be true for 34 departures & arrivals, with the extra length being available for landings, but not much good for departures. Unless, of course, you have an alternate EFATO procedure available, such as an LNAV or visual turn back down the harbour, like burty referred to.
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Just a thought from an out and out amateur.....when departing from 34 why can't aircraft fly up the Hutt Valley rather than over Newlands ridge if it causes so many problems? At least that way the distance is much longer to achieve the height necessary.
At Hayward's Rd a left turn would necessitate approx. another 120 metres to climb in excess of the Newlands ridge but gives another 14kms to achieve it.
The extra distance to overfly Paraparaumu for instance is about 3km.
To a layman this seems all too simple....why doesn't it happen?
At Hayward's Rd a left turn would necessitate approx. another 120 metres to climb in excess of the Newlands ridge but gives another 14kms to achieve it.
The extra distance to overfly Paraparaumu for instance is about 3km.
To a layman this seems all too simple....why doesn't it happen?
It gets pretty skinny around Stokes Valley - and I imagine even further down towards Taita there wouldn't be a wide enough fan to either left or right clear of terrain in case of a missed approach... am I right?
Similar reason as to why there's no Cat 3 auto-land at Wellington on 34 or 16 despite it being a v. busy airport in terms of movements - big, fat, solid hills on either side!
Similar reason as to why there's no Cat 3 auto-land at Wellington on 34 or 16 despite it being a v. busy airport in terms of movements - big, fat, solid hills on either side!
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300m is hardly any improvement when the RESA takes out around 150m at each end they should extend it 500m+. Do it right first time properly, so not need to do another extension again 10 years down the track when construction costs have again doubled.
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NZAPA comment that they want more then the proposed 300m:
Wellington Airport Pilots Urge Extension Of Runway... | Stuff.co.nz
Wellington Airport Pilots Urge Extension Of Runway... | Stuff.co.nz
horatio got his tits in a tangle. not sure why.
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Slamer
On the subject of an engine-out, what would be the situation if a fully laden 737 for Oz were to experience an engine-out emergency?
Is NZWL runway long enough to accommodate the aircraft in that situation? I was thinking of the full reverse thrust needed to stop an aircraft at Wellington in a normal situation, the weight of the incoming craft and the massive assymetric thrust that would occur at full reverse thrust following an engine-out.
Would Wellington be OK?
The options.....
take a risk and try for Christchurch or would Ohakea be acceptable under the circumstances?
A case for lengthening the runway.....
I'd appreciate your thoughts.
On the subject of an engine-out, what would be the situation if a fully laden 737 for Oz were to experience an engine-out emergency?
Is NZWL runway long enough to accommodate the aircraft in that situation? I was thinking of the full reverse thrust needed to stop an aircraft at Wellington in a normal situation, the weight of the incoming craft and the massive assymetric thrust that would occur at full reverse thrust following an engine-out.
Would Wellington be OK?
The options.....
take a risk and try for Christchurch or would Ohakea be acceptable under the circumstances?
A case for lengthening the runway.....
I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Last edited by 1oztoffee1; 22nd Jun 2013 at 12:04.
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mr(s) toffee
jet perf is calculated to allow for eng failures both on the rwy and airborne. crews consider a/c ldg perf before departing, or they nominate a departure alternate eg nzoh. landing distance reqmnts are different in non normal situations.
assym rev thrust is not normally an issue unless rwy is contaminated with snow/ice etc. wellies is wide enough.
and unless you did actually mean west melton, wellington is nzwn
jet perf is calculated to allow for eng failures both on the rwy and airborne. crews consider a/c ldg perf before departing, or they nominate a departure alternate eg nzoh. landing distance reqmnts are different in non normal situations.
assym rev thrust is not normally an issue unless rwy is contaminated with snow/ice etc. wellies is wide enough.
and unless you did actually mean west melton, wellington is nzwn
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waren9
Many thanks for your input. Does what you are saying mean that the crew in the case I submitted would return to Wellington? (not West Melton ......ha ha good point)
Many thanks for your input. Does what you are saying mean that the crew in the case I submitted would return to Wellington? (not West Melton ......ha ha good point)
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a crews decision to return to land will be influenced by many things incl the nature of the failure/emergency, a/c ldg capability at that weight with remaining a/c systems, other options nearby, the weather, grd services avail, a/c perf in the missed appr etc etc etc
a heavy 737 with a straight engine failure i expect would be able to get back in to nzwn if ldg dist on a nice day was the only factor. others would know for sure.
a heavy 737 with a straight engine failure i expect would be able to get back in to nzwn if ldg dist on a nice day was the only factor. others would know for sure.
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A quick look over Boeing's performance data for the 777W or B788 indicates you'd need ~3000m on an ISA day to run a 5000nm mission with full payload. Payload reduces by ~30% off a 2300m runway. This is not a viable plan.
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I certainly remember the QF 747SP service into and out of WLG - I was present the day of the inaugural, and even did a guest flight over that weekend. I even attended a lecture given by the Chief Pilot - a month or two later that he gave at the Australia New Zealand Association that used to meet monthly at the Aust High Commission in Hobson St.
The Service was eventually handed over to 767 service, as more frequent service was preferable to 3 days a week SYD WLG SYD which is used to be in winter.
An expansion into Evans Bay is gathering a lot of protest - Evans Bay is a great bay and would change for ever with a runway extension to the north. I personally would prefer an reclamation to the south but cannot comment on the tech issues that could cause.
Someone made a comment that Newlands needed a nuclear bombing, in my opinion - not much at Newlands that would be missed. I was sropping a rental car off a at WLG in Nov 2009 when my eyes saw something Gold sitting on the tarmac - yes it was a Gulf Air Airbus - the Kiwi Soccer team was playing Bahrain that weekend , I guess it was flying on a low load . Got pics to prove it.
Long Haul service to Asia would be a huge improvement - and could be marketed very successfully.
I could even be tempted to live in WLG again if that were to happen
The Service was eventually handed over to 767 service, as more frequent service was preferable to 3 days a week SYD WLG SYD which is used to be in winter.
An expansion into Evans Bay is gathering a lot of protest - Evans Bay is a great bay and would change for ever with a runway extension to the north. I personally would prefer an reclamation to the south but cannot comment on the tech issues that could cause.
Someone made a comment that Newlands needed a nuclear bombing, in my opinion - not much at Newlands that would be missed. I was sropping a rental car off a at WLG in Nov 2009 when my eyes saw something Gold sitting on the tarmac - yes it was a Gulf Air Airbus - the Kiwi Soccer team was playing Bahrain that weekend , I guess it was flying on a low load . Got pics to prove it.
Long Haul service to Asia would be a huge improvement - and could be marketed very successfully.
I could even be tempted to live in WLG again if that were to happen